New to Reloading

[Rem 700]

Hello,
I just got into the reloading game...I shoot a 30.06 Sp and am using Nosler BT's. The first powder I used was IMR4831 with 180gr BT. This load didn't seam as accurate as a pervious load, IMR4064. I have read that the IMR4831 is better for bullets 180 grains or heavier. Is this true? Also, I had some pressure problems when loading 58 grains of IMR 4831 with the 180 grain BT's. I backed the charge down to 54.5 grains. No cratered primers anymore, but I am concerned about the lower velocity. The chart says that this will but my muz vel at under 2600. I am primarily hunting deer and elk. Any thoughts...I am open to learn and try different things.
Thanks.[/list]

 

[DrMike]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on getting into hand loading.

Fifty-eight grains of IMR4831 could be tickling the dragons' tail. Did you work that charge up, beginning with a lower charge and working up in increments? That will be important for finding the most accurate load for your rifle. When beginning, it is probably not a good idea to exceed the loads listed in reloading guides.

IMR4831 is a standard powder for the 30-06. However, the cartridge is not terribly fussy about powders. IMR4064 will work just fine, as will a number of other powders.

Accuracy is the result of a number of factors, all coming together in a given combination to give the best results in a particular rifle--in this case, your own. Consistency in all areas of case preparation, charge and seating will be important. Assuming there are no serious problems in case length and/or powder charge, you might play with seating depth.

I note from your handle (Rem 700) that you are likely shooting a Remington. Remingtons are generally well-built rifles that shoot quite accurately from the box. However, the magazine tends to limit the overall length (OAL) permitted for the cartridge. You may not be able to alter the cartridge length a great deal, but in some cases this can make a great difference in accuracy.

If changing the OAL is not a viable option, there are a number of powders that can be tried that alter the barrel time of the bullet by milliseconds and consequently change the accuracy potential for the rifle. Among powders you might wish to consider I would suggest ReLoder 22, Vihtavuori 165, Hodgdon 414, Winchester 760, Accurate 3100 or Ramshot Hunter. In the IMR powders, you have a good one in 4131 and in 4064, but you could always consider 4350.

Did you choose 180 grain Ballistic Tips for a particular reason? Have you shot factory ammunition loaded with these? It is possible that a different weight and/or a different bullet will give you better accuracy without losing the performance advantage you seek. If changing the powder does not give you the accuracy you want, consider trying a 165 grain BT. You may find that an AccuBond or a Partition will give you the accuracy you are seeking.

The wide variety of possibilities are what make reloading such an enjoyable pasttime.

Best of success to you as you begin this fascinating pasttime.

 

[Rem 700]

Thanks for the info...and yes I am shooting a Reminton 700. As far as the charge, I started out too high 58 gr and had cratered primers. So I backed it down to 54.5gr and that is the only charge I have experimented with so far. What weight increments to you suggest I increase by.
Also, I chose the 180 BT because I wanted a weight that I could use for both deer and elk. What do you think about the 165 gr for elk (BT or AB)?

 

[DrMike]

A good rule of thumb is to back off at least 5% from maximum and work up in one grain increments. In your case, a maximum load is approaching 57 grains of IMR4831, so 1 grain is an increase of less than 2%. The difference in velocities will be rather small, in the order of 50 fps or so at that particular pressure generated. This means that you can control the increments somewhat more precisely, allowing fine tuning. I would encourage you to focus on accuracy rather than velocity. While velocity impresses people who don't shoot, it is still the precise placement of a shot that ensures a clean kill of game. After all, a 180 grain spire point bullet with a ballistic coefficient of 0.425 and a muzzel velocity of 2500 fps still generates almost 2000 ft-lb of energy at 200 yards, more than enough to kill an elk. Further more, the difference in point of impact at 300 yards between that particular bullet and one launched at 2700 fps is less than one inch. Get to know your load, shooting it at various distances until you are confident of where it is going to hid under a given set of conditions.

The 165 grain AccuBond will be just right for your rifle, I should think. It will do just fine on elk. It will actually retain more energy at a maximum load than does the 180 grain loaded to a maximum pressure limit when measured at 300 yards. It seems to me that it is the ideal bullet weight for your rifle, given the purpose you are loading for. It will not be "overkill" for deer (whatever that term means) and it will certainly be enough bullet for elk.

 

[Rem 700]

Awesome...great advice...maybe I'll load the next charge to 55.5 grains and see how it does. I'll also look into the 165 grain AB.

 

[DrMike]

You might be well advised, especially if it is some distance to the range, to load up a series of loads (three cartridges each) consisting of varying charges beginning with the minimum recommended and progressing up to the maximum recommended in one grain increments. In this way, you eliminate one variable by shooting all the loads on one day. Though the temperature will change during the course of shooting, as will wind velocities and direction, you will be physically the same (all else being equal) for that day. If you feel this is too many loads, then drop back (on a cartridge with capacity similar to the 30-06) by a charge weight of 4 grains from maximum and shoot only those four loads. You will get the benefit of more shooting, and it is just possible that you will find some pleasant surprises as you shoot the loads. If possible, it will be to your benefit to find a good chronograph to determine velocity of your loads. That can save you a lot of grief, and it can keep you from tossing some loads that may in fact be quite good with minor tweaking.

 

[JD338]

Rem 700

Give RL 22 a try. Great accuracy and velocity with the 180 gr bullets.
Another great powder is good old IMR4350.

JD338

 

[Powerstroke]

+1 With what JD stated about the IMR4350 Stand-by powder.

I don't have any personal experience with the -06, but I generally back off 10% from the max load and work up in .5 grain increments. I'll generally load four of each myself... that way it gives me one shot that I can blame myself if I have a good group going and pull one......

You'll also find over time that one paticular gun may not like that bullet no matter what you do. No harm short of the pocket book to try some 165gr B-tips or I'd make that Accubonds if you want it one load for both deer and elk. The 165's are plenty for elk.

Let us know your next results

 

[JD338]

You might also want to give the 180 gr AB a try with RL 22 Start 57.0 grs, MAX 61.0 grs.

As Powerstroke mentioned, the 165 gr AB is another option if you can't get the 180 grs to shoot. Again, RL 22 and IMR 4350 would be good powders to go with.

JD338

 

[hubcap]

Just a little more info on the IMR-4831. I loaded up 180 nosler partitions for 4 ea. 30:06 rifles this past summer using IMR-4831, cci-200 primers and different brands of brass. Here,s what I was able to come up with. The pre-64 win would take 58 grains OK without cratering the primers with WIN. brass. The rest including a 700 BDL, a ruger M77 and last a savage 110 would take up to 57 grains with either rem. brass or federal brass. So, I,m thinking if you work up to 57 grains or near 57 grains of 4831 you may find out things are OK for your rifle. Nosler -5 reloading manual lists 57 grains as a max load. Far as accuracy goes all four rifles grouped decent with IMR-4831. I lost my chrony data for the the loads I used but I do recall velocities over 2700 FPS.

 

[C.Smith]

I use the 165 AccuBond in my 30-06 for my all around deer/elk bullet. I use RL 22 and love it. Great velocity and good accuracy with my rifle. I too load 3 round starting with the minum and working up in .5 increments until I get to the max load in the book or my rifle. So far I have always found the most accurate load before I reached the maximum charge. Once I do that I start playing around with .2 grains either way until I really zero in the accuracy.

Corey

 

[Big Squeeze]

You may also want to think about the new wonder powder RL17. Good increases reported from the `06 vs all other used.

 

[bullet]

Use the 165gr bullet in your 30-06 and the AccuBond is a great choice and the 165gr bullet is the optimum weight for the velocities attained by a 30-06. Now with the 06 you can go from 150-240gr bullets and all your velocities will be over 2200fps and as much as 3000fps with conventional bullets.

Another option for the 06 especially if you are in big bear country while hunting deer, elk or moose is the 168gr TSX and with IMR4350 will move 3000fps without being over max. Take DrMike's advice on load development.

Two powders you want to stick with when it comes to accuracy, velocity and consistent results all in one package whether you use 150gr 165gr or 180gr 200gr, 220gr or 240gr and they are H4350 and IMR4350.

By the way, welcome to reloading and the joy of rolling your own.

 

[Guest]

I'll suggest that so far, everyone is right on. I will add that you may not get published velocities from your rifle, nor may you match everyone's velocities from their sporters, either. Don't worry about it. As Dr. Mike so keenly observed, the difference in trajectory is minute at most shooting ranges. Beyond that, I think you'd be well served to buy at least one, if not two, good handloading manuals (Nosler #6, Hornady #7, and Speer #14 are all great resources) and review the front sections on how to load and what the 'hard and fast' rules are for loading your own. If you plan to load Barnes bullets, I'd go ahead and get their #4 manual as well, as the data for their stuff is very prodcut specific, as their construction is unique due to the special alloy they use.

Kudos for noticing quickly that you had issues with the first load and throttling back. Next time, follow the process of loading a 'workup' at gradually increasing charge weights (as has been suggested) and then make a trip to the range and shoot through them, stopping if you have a problem or see pressure signs. Good luck, and keep the questions coming. We love this stuff. Welcome aboard, also.

 

[Rem 700]

Thanks guys...I really appreciate all the help...I think I will purchase some 165gr Accubonds in the 30 cal. However, everybody seems to be backordered...does anybody know where they might be currently in stock? I am anxious to see what different charge loads do the best out of my gun. You have all made it clear that I need to focus on variying my load for accuracy not simply trajectory.
Thanks...

 

[Guest]

Something else you should definitely do is take a look at the following information:

http://www.hornady.com/ballistics/

Read through the stuff at the Internal, External, and Terminal ballistics links. It's a great primer.

Also, see this for how to load:

http://www.rcbs.com/guide/default.aspx

Check out the step-by-step and reloader's language links.

And then see this for information on general safety and tips:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_st ... fault.aspx

Especially pay attention to the general guidelines section here.

You may already know some of this stuff, but it's good review, and since you didn't realize the dangers of jumping right to the max charge, I figured you could weed out what you already know and find the nuggets you need. Something from that last link that really is important - set a routine and follow it. Do everything the same every time. Consistentcy at the load bench leads to consistency at the range. Good luck, and be safe. And double check your double check on your powder scale. I didn't, once. Almost ruined a perfectly good rifle.

 

[DrMike]

dubyam,

I wish I had had a mentor when I began reloading. It could have saved some sorrow. Good links you have provided. We really do live in a great time when such assistance is available.

 

[Guest]

A good friend of mine (who now lives entirely too far away) and I learned to handload together in college - we thought we would save money, Ha! We ended up spending the same, and shooting three times as much. It would have been nice to have a mentor, but in reality, we spent a lot of time reading through manuals, and we were ultra cautious from the start. It was fun, and we learned quickly, but it is nice to have the resources we have now. I keep making this offer - if anybody's near enough to Huntsville, AL that they'd make the drive over, I'll open my loadbench to help anyone learn the craft. I think I've become a handloader as much as a hunter and shooter now - I enjoy just sitting at the bench, or in my chair pouring over data and dreaming of the next perfect load.

 

[Rem 700]

OK guys...I finally purchased the bullets I decided on...165gr ABs. I started with 55.5 grains of IMR 4831 and worked my way through 56.5, 57, 57.5, 58, 58.5. I shot three shots of each load. As I worked my way up the groups kept getting tighter and tighter as I reached 57grains. Then as I went up from their I still got a close pair but always with a flier. I have read that a flier may mean too much pressure. I was very happy with the 57 grain group. It was right at an inch. So I reloaded a few more at 57 grains and sighted in.
Then, I picked up my an old box of 180 grain BT that I had laying around. I loaded it with 57 grains (the ballistic chart shows this load at about 2700 feet per second, which was what also showed for my AB load at 57 grains). So I shot the BTs and they grouped almost as well (2 in high at 100 yrds just like my AB load). It looks like I will use the BTs for deer and the ABs for Elk this fall. I am tickled to death that they shoot relatively similar so that minimal if any sight ajustment between the two loads is necessary.
Overall, I can't tell you how awesome the feeling was to have such a great group with my own load. I got into reloading to find a more accurate load then I could buy at walmart. I just couldn't get any grouping with the Remington soft point cor-lok.
So, now I have a great feeling of confidence that I will take with me on the range and into the woods.
Thanks for all your help with this.

 

[Powerstroke]

Rem 700

Congrats on finding a load and working up the scale as you did. It's not often you can find two loads out of that gate like that that will shoot that close together.......... Heck, I can't get 180gr B-tips and 180gr A-bonds out of the same gun to do that....
Again Congrats !