Newbie hunter looking for a combo load.

[Mr Dean]

Hey Guy's!:

Just found this forum and I must admit, I like what I see. I'm a long time shooter and now, after some BIG life changes, I'm taking up a loooooong time passion for big game hunting. I'll be out latter next month in pursuit of Mule deer (any buck) and/or a Moose (spiked bull). It should also be noted that this is a 'stalk and walk' meat hunt. I'll be out for horns later in the season.

I have a couple of query's for the 'knowledged ones': first of all I will be going out w/ a Winchester 70, 300 win-mag that I've owned and shot for some ten yrs (I know this rifle VERY well). It's 'best load' to date is 76 grns of IMR 4350 pushing a 150 grn Nosler Partition. Velocities are up around the 3300 fps arena and w/ this load the groups are always under 1 inch @ 100 yrds. On this hunt, knowing the area fairly well, I'm expecting shots anywhere upto 300 yrds but not likely anything under 100.

I'm confident that I can make the shot but I'm not sure what the bullet will do after it hits it's target. Ask me anything about catching Salmon on the open Pacific but when it comes too hunting.....I'm a little fuzzy!

:?: With the size and type of species considered.....Is this load to much, or not enough?.

Any and all insights appreciated.

 

[rick smith]

I would recommend you go to a heavier bullet and slower powder mostly because Moose are in your plans. The mulies I have shot and seen killed didn't require any more than most whitetails. A 165-180gr bullet like the Partition or AccuBond would get the job done. H or IMR-4831, RL 19 or 22. IMR-7828.Rick.

 

[Mr Dean]

Rick;

Thanks for your response.

I've tried nearly a full pound of RL 22 w/ 180 grn Partitions w/ every conservable bullet depth and haven't been able to find the 'right' mix. No consistency AT ALL. I've given up on it. I have a run of 180's loaded w/ the 4350 that I will test out tomorrow as well as some 165's loaded w/ the RL22 and IMR 4350.....IF my shoulder can withstand all that abuse! Lol. And if that doesn't work, the next batch made up of IMR 7828 surely will!! (kill the shoulder, that is).

With that said, wouldn't a 180 grn bullet be huge over kill on the mulie, spoiling a fair amount of meat?

I also looked up the ballistics and only find a difference of about 200 ft lbs of energy using a 165 grn bullet compared w/ what I have shooting good now, in the 150 grn. Would that 200 lbs make that much of a difference on a young Moose?.

I'm sure that you as well as others now truly understand how 'gray' things appear, looking through my eye's. :shock: :shock:

 

[JD338]

Mr Dean,

I agree with Rick on the 180 gr PT. It will work just fine on deer and give you the penetration for big bodied game like Moose.

As for loads, I have loaded the following load for two friends. Both of them shoot sub MOA groups.

180 gr Nosler PT
75.0 grs RL22
W-W Case
Federal GM215M primer

This load is just under MAX load listed in Nosler RG#5, work up carefully.

Regards,

JD338

 

[Mr Dean]

JD338;

I've worked that load inside and out thoroughly. Started out about 10% under and worked up to 76.9 gr's.....Tried three different primers......Tried different seating depths.......Different cases....Re-working from the starting load each and every time. It just doesn't like the rifle. I think the reason for all of my endeavors was that this was the first cartridge I selected to start handloading for. After all that time invested I nearly scrapped the gun. It was my Father in law who actually saved the day when he gave me some IMR 4350 to try out that he used for his 30 06. The 150 gr bullets were a mistake by the shop keeper who bagged up the wrong order (I was looking for 165's).

Interesting though, the RL-22 works almost as good as the 4350 on these lighter bullets. With either load I can nail a coffee can @ 300 yrds.

Does anyone happen to know what Remington used as a powder, about six/eight years ago, in their factory 180 gr. 300 Win mag Cor-Lok ammo?. It was the best shoot'n fact round that I tried. Grouped in around 1.5" if I remember corectly. It would be nice to try tweaking it w/ the Partitions.....

Thanks again!

 

[rick smith]

The 180 will not spoil any more meat than any other round. Lighter bullets going faster are more likely to spoil meat. Try the IMR-7828 or 4831. The foot pounds of energy are important but I would be more interested in the heavier bullet for the moose. Heavier/thicker bones and muscles. The heavier bullets should expand less and give better penetration. Course the tried and true Partition will give expansion and penetration. You might be planning on a young moose but if bullwinkle shows up, good to be prepared.Rick.

 

[Mr Dean]

Ok Rick. I think I'm starting to get it: Smaller/lighter bullets traveling @ higher velocities show a greater risk of fragmenting when hitting bones and such.

After hours of cruising through most of the posts on this forum and reading the replies to mine, it's starting to make sense. My original thinking was that a heavier bullet (180 gr) could turn a deer inside out w/ the energy it stored at the Win mags velocities. I also figured if a 30 06 throwing out a 165 grainer could take down a full grown bull Moose, then a lighter bullet of the same cal hitting a few hundred fps faster would do the same job, if not better. WOW. I'm glad I asked a 'stupid' question before going out in the bush only to find out that I was DEAD WRONG.

Good on you for taking the time out and dealing with a dummy. THANKS!!

I'll be pulling apart my 150's tonight. The only thing that they are probably good for is Coyote but I'm not a varmint shooter..

Tomorrow and Friday I'll be spending full days at the range, working out different loads.

There is NO WAY that Bullwinkle will be coming home on this trip. Where I live we have very specific open seasons for different areas. The only Moose that can be harvested in this particular area is a 'spike fork' bull. I'll just have too pass any other up. Plain and simple........But them Mulies are HUGE. The way I see it, what ever presents itself first is what will be going in the freezer. One or the other. Not both.

Another interesting point I learned is that the trajectories of either bullet (150/180) are virtually identical.........Awesome gains in down range energy though, as expected.

I'll post my results when I'm back from the range.

 

[ps300wm]

Mr. Dean
I have also shot the 300winmag for about 10 years and have recently had my Model 70 rebarreled after about some 1100+ rounds. So like you I have done alot of shooting lately. My experience over this time mirrors rick smith and jd338. RL22,H4831,and IMR4350 have all given good results with the 180gr. bullet. My only suggestion would be to try the 180gr Partition protected point version. This bullet is slightly shorter and can be seated out of the case slightly farther. For what ever reason it has always given me better accuray than the regular version. The only downside is not none of the shops in my area carry it and it must be ordered. I would also suggest trying the 200gr. Partition. While I have never even seen a moose but they have worked great on elk and deer.

 

[700 bdl]

Try H-1000 and maybe switch to a 180 gr. AccuBond.

 

[Mr Dean]

Hey fella's!

Just got back home from a morning of shoot'n. Had some old rounds of RL22/180gr's hang'n around........They still shoot HORRIBLE. Shot off a few three round groups of my prized 150gr loads. One grouped at 3/4" @ 100yds. The other two groups each made one rough hole in the paper. Too bad I can't do anything else w/ these..........

Made up some IMR4350/180gr Nosler PT's. Fired three, three round groups @ 100yd targets. First string of Bullets missed the paper (scope dialed in for 150gr bullets). OOPS. Aimed 6" lower for the 2nd and 3rd strings. Both grouped @ 1 1/4". Very consistent, I'm pleased. There could be hope yet!.

That round will do for the hunt but I'm going to 'tweak' it a little tonight and see if it can do better tomorrow. I'm also going to try out some IMR4831 as well, tomorrow.

Bought a CZ 22LR last year for Grouse hunt'n. Took it w/ me to keep myself entertained between Moose loads. Tried several types of cheap ammo. I find I can get consistent 5 shot groups under 1/2" w/ Imperial 36gr HP's @ 50yds. VERY IMPRESSED!!. Excellent shooting rifle. Might try some high class stuff in it tomorrow as well.

Time to clean guns and roll some more ammo. Will post range results at a latter date. Thanks to all for the sharing of info. :wink: :wink:

 

[rick smith]

The only dumb questions are the ones that don't get asked. If your groups with factory ammo look better than the ones with your loads, try seating the bullet into the case so that the base of the bullet is even with the neck shoulder junction unless you have a short throated rifle. I have done that on several WBY mags and had it work well. Bullets don't have to be close to the lands to shoot well. Also make sure your stock is not binding on the barrel and all screws are tight(stock/mount/rings).Rick.

 

[JD338]

Another possible option is to try the 180 gr Partition Gold Molly Free bullets. With a different center of gravity, they might shoot better than the standard 180 gr PTs.

Regards,

JD338

 

[Cariboo]

If the 150 grain Partitions shoot well in your rifle use them! No one I know would think twice about using 150 grain partitions from a .270 to shoot a moose so why worry about the 150 grain .30 calibre not doing the job especially on an imature.

A moose is not all that hard to kill. Pick broadside shots and shot it low through both lungs. Don't spook it after the shot and let it drop to it's knees on it's own. (moose sometimes take up to 2 or 3 min. to realize they have died)

Good luck next month! 8)

 

[Mr Dean]

Hey Guys!

This thread has kinda gotten of topic (hunting). I'm going to make new post's over in the reloading forum, seeing as this has now evolved in to a 'research and development' exercise.