Nosler 223 Brass: Why so short?

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brians356

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Dec 3, 2012
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I have some Nosler 223 brass, and while very pretty, they are significantly shorter than the SAAMI "trim-to length" for 223 Rem!

This is very bad luck for me, as I shoot light bullets in a rifle with generous chamber length (as measured with Sinclair chamber length gauge) and leade, so I only square my necks and try not to shorten them any more than I can get away with.

Out of the box, I cannot even seat a 40-grain BT or a 50-grain TNT without producing an Evel Knievel-esque bullet jump with this Nosler brass.

I got this brass a few years ago - are recent lots coming out any longer?

Brian
 
SAAMI .223 case length spec is 1.740" to 1.760". The "trim-to" length is simply put in the middle of that range to make allowance for +/- errors. Anything in the range is fine.

What is the actual length of your Nosler brass?
 
You do not have to be close to the lands to shoot small groups. Most rifles will have more than one sweet spot in seating depth. If you have ever loaded WBY Mags, you would have found large jumps to the lands. With them, I start with the bullet base at the neck/shoulder junction. I have a 338/350 Rem Mag that has a jump more than 0.100" and it shoots very well. Bullet seating depth in a repeater has to fit and function from the magazine, not be loose in the case neck and not be jammed into the lands. Being close to the lands is simply a starting place to search for the correct depth, no magic in being close.Rick.
 
steve4102":2k25guty said:
SAAMI .223 case length spec is 1.740" to 1.760". The "trim-to" length is simply put in the middle of that range to make allowance for +/- errors. Anything in the range is fine. What is the actual length of your Nosler brass?
Click to expand...
Mine came at 1.735".

It will be hard to justify making them shorter than "SAAMI minimum", but I am open to reason if someone would like to have a go.

Brian
 
rick smith":15sbcust said:
You do not have to be close to the lands to shoot small groups.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Rick. I've been reloading for accuracy for 25 years - I had actually considered bullet jump as a variable. My current two active 223 varmint loads utilize bullet jumps of .020" and .040" respectively, arrived at by testing.

However, even with a jump of .040" I cannot use the short Nosler brass. Could I go to an extreme (by conventional standards) bullet jump in order to use it? Sure. Would I bother? Nope. (Anyone want a box of brass?)

In general, many small-caliber loads group best when the bullet is at or near the lands in bolt-action rifles. So with the light bullets so popular for varmint hunting (many of boat tail design, making reasonable neck engagement even more problematic!) such short brass as these Noslers are all but useless.

My hunch is these are designed for the massive market of AR-15 shooters, who may prefer cases on the short (read "safe") side. Just a hunch.

Brian
 
In my experience with a Rem VS 223 (1:12 twist), the Nosler 50BT is the most accurate (I've tried the 40BT, 50BT and 55 BT), and it works well with Nosler brass. Field experience proves the 50BT works best (wind drift, drop and performance on varmints) in my rifle. The 40 offers no advantage.
 
BeeTee":3twybfwm said:
In my experience with a Rem VS 223 (1:12 twist), the Nosler 50BT is the most accurate (I've tried the 40BT, 50BT and 55 BT), and it works well with Nosler brass. Field experience proves the 50BT works best (wind drift, drop and performance on varmints) in my rifle. The 40 offers no advantage.
Click to expand...

BeeTee,

Thanks. That's good to know. It makes me wonder why Nosler's 40-gr BT is so popular, and even why they bother to make them. If I had to guess, I'd guess the 40-grain is the most popular of all the .224 BT offerings.

But that's a topic for another thread. This thread wonders why Nosler 223 Rem brass is so short, shorter even than the "SAAMI minimum case length." Your opinion on that would be welcome.

Brian
 
BeeTee,

Thanks. That's good to know. It makes me wonder why Nosler's 40-gr BT is so popular, and even why they bother to make them. If I had to guess, I'd guess the 40-grain is the most popular of all the .224 BT offerings.

But that's a topic for another thread. This thread wonders why Nosler 223 Rem brass is so short, shorter even than the "SAAMI minimum case length." Your opinion on that would be welcome.

Brian
Click to expand...

Just a guess on my part, but I suspect Nosler chose to go short to provide a manufacturing tolerance safety factor when producing and selling a "ready to load" cartridge case. A case too long could be a safety issue, especially in this litigious world we live in.

Regarding the 40BT, speed sells. Being able to turn a 223 into a 22-250 (speed wise) makes for good ad copy. Unfortunately, practical reality interferes when one analyzes the ballistics and field performance - let alone accuracy. In my rifle, to load the 40BT so it is within a few thousandths of touching the lands, there's only about half of the already short 223 case neck holding the bullet. The 50BT's base is ~ even with the bottom of the case neck.

Regarding the accuracy difference between the 40 & 50BT, the 40BT isn't bad by any stretch. Where a good day at the range with the 50BT will produce multiple groups in the .2, .3 or .4" range, the 40BT will produce groups in the .6 or .7" range. In the varmint fields, that accuracy difference is noticeable at long ranges (like 300 yards) but won't make any difference at shorter ranges unless you're shooting in the wind.

The design of the Nosler 22 cal BT (any weight) produces a long for its weight bullet when compared to other cup/core bullets. This works great when using a short neck cartridge (like the 223) and still wanting to reach for the lands. Compare the length of the Nosler 50BT to a 50 grain Sierra or Speer to see what I mean. My best loads use enough W748 and Remington match primers to push the Nosler 50BT to just over 3400-fps.
 
BeeTee,

I'm glad you mentioned the 223 Rem's "already short" case neck. Of all the popular cartridges, you could hardly choose one less likely to be improved by shortening the neck even more.

It is generally agreed that the best brass money can buy is Lupua brass. And Lupua 223 Rem cases are right at the SAAMI "trim-to length" of 1.750". Should we wonder why Lupua would so recklessly temp fate in a litigious world?
 
Brian, I've never used Lapua brass. I hear from many who have that it is wonderful. You sound committed to the 40BT. Let us know what load you settle on.
 
BeeTee,

Well, I keep steering this back to my topic (Nosler 223 Brass: Why so short?) since I am not looking for a 40-grain load or any other load.

I have been using a 40-gr BT load in 223 for almost 20 years now - 27.0 grains H322 in Winchester brass, Rem 7-1/2 primer - that prints nice 1/3 inch groups, and often clover leafs. It has been my medicine for California Ground Squirrels and coyotes in NW Nevada.
 
I suspect if you crimp a factory groove bullet into this 1.735" case and measure the OAL. You will get the reason for its length. 64gr bonded in an AR magazine might be the combo.
 
Does anyone have any new unprimed 223Rem brass from any manufacturer (other than Nosler) that came shorter than 1.750 inches?

So far we have Winchester and Lapua as examples right at or slightly longer than 1.750".
 
CatskillCrawler":tcg7q8zw said:
And they did not provide a resolution for their out-of -spec brass?
Click to expand...
Nope. They feel they're doing just fine. "We haven't heard any other complaints, sir."

But why shorter than SAAMI minimum? "That's just how we make it. We don't want any problems with brass being too long, I suppose." I.e. I really don't have an official reason I can cite. It is what it is.

I should add that was several years ago. If someone has any Nosler 233 brass that's longer than 1.740", step out of the brush.
 
The guy who gave me the Nosler 223 brass took them back, and gave me a box of Lapua.

:grin:

Brian
 
I picked up several boxes of the .223 from SPS knowing it could be short. Other than a few mangled cases mine came in at 1.743".
 
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