Nosler changed the Accubond?

[joelkdouglas]

Gents,

I was loading up some 180 grain 30 cal Accubonds tonight for some load development testing. I wanted an Cartridge Base to Ogive (CBTO) measurement of 2.623 inches for 30-06 (what my rifle has previously liked).

Well, I mixed boxes between new box (open from top, not slide open, and not hinge open), and noticed a 0.01 inch variance between CBTO measurement. I thought, WTF? Seated several times, no change. Used a Forster seater (previously using Redding), no change.

Measured bullet ogive to base, all bullets from the old boxes and new boxes were within a reasonable difference (less than 0.01 inches, most within 0.005 inches). Couldn't figure it out.

Later I came back and measured bullet overall length (OAL). Wouldn't you know, old box bullets were 0.01 to 0.015 shorter than the new box bullets.

I have 1 more old box, and 5 new boxes. WTF--why did they change? It's like the new bullets are longer for better BC? I will shoot them, but now I know not to mix boxes. I have an old box of Accubonds that I probably will never use--if I do load development it will be for the boxes I have the most of, and that's the new style.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Joel, I would use the old AccuBond bullets for practice, or sell them.

 

[JD338]

Not sure why or how I can answer this.
I ran into this last ear with the 7mm 160 gr AB. Scotty had the same problem.

JD338

 

[300WSM]

Gents,

I was loading up some 180 grain 30 cal Accubonds tonight for some load development testing. I wanted an Cartridge Base to Ogive (CBTO) measurement of 2.623 inches for 30-06 (what my rifle has previously liked).

Well, I mixed boxes between new box (open from top, not slide open, and not hinge open), and noticed a 0.01 inch variance between CBTO measurement. I thought, WTF? Seated several times, no change. Used a Forster seater (previously using Redding), no change.

Measured bullet ogive to base, all bullets from the old boxes and new boxes were within a reasonable difference (less than 0.01 inches, most within 0.005 inches). Couldn't figure it out.

Later I came back and measured bullet overall length (OAL). Wouldn't you know, old box bullets were 0.01 to 0.015 shorter than the new box bullets.

I have 1 more old box, and 5 new boxes. WTF--why did they change? It's like the new bullets are longer for better BC? I will shoot them, but now I know not to mix boxes. I have an old box of Accubonds that I probably will never use--if I do load development it will be for the boxes I have the most of, and that's the new style.

You said you are getting a variation of .005-.010 on the new and old bullets which is acceptable....

did you check the tips?

In my experience with Nosler (all tipped bullets) the variation I've come across lies on the plastic tip and not the actual bullet.

 

[super-7]

Would you not shoot both and see if there is any effect on poi before dis missing the old ones?

 

[Guy Miner]

Bullet making dies wear out and are replaced. Sometimes there is a small change like you've described. I've seen it with other bullet manufacturers as well. Another reason why competition shooters often buy a few thousand bullets at a time, getting them all from one manufacturing lot.

Don't know if that's what you're seeing, but it could simply be that one set of bullet making dies wore out and was replaced with a new set at the factory.

Guy

 

[onesonek]

Bullet making dies wear out and are replaced. Sometimes there is a small change like you've described. I've seen it with other bullet manufacturers as well. Another reason why competition shooters often buy a few thousand bullets at a time, getting them all from one manufacturing lot.

Don't know if that's what you're seeing, but it could simply be that one set of bullet making dies wore out and was replaced with a new set at the factory.

Guy

Same experience and thoughts here.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Gents,

I was loading up some 180 grain 30 cal Accubonds tonight for some load development testing. I wanted an Cartridge Base to Ogive (CBTO) measurement of 2.623 inches for 30-06 (what my rifle has previously liked).

Well, I mixed boxes between new box (open from top, not slide open, and not hinge open), and noticed a 0.01 inch variance between CBTO measurement. I thought, WTF? Seated several times, no change. Used a Forster seater (previously using Redding), no change.

Measured bullet ogive to base, all bullets from the old boxes and new boxes were within a reasonable difference (less than 0.01 inches, most within 0.005 inches). Couldn't figure it out.

Later I came back and measured bullet overall length (OAL). Wouldn't you know, old box bullets were 0.01 to 0.015 shorter than the new box bullets.

I have 1 more old box, and 5 new boxes. WTF--why did they change? It's like the new bullets are longer for better BC? I will shoot them, but now I know not to mix boxes. I have an old box of Accubonds that I probably will never use--if I do load development it will be for the boxes I have the most of, and that's the new style.

You said you are getting a variation of .005-.010 on the new and old bullets which is acceptable....

did you check the tips?

In my experience with Nosler (all tipped bullets) the variation I've come across lies on the plastic tip and not the actual bullet.

Variations in the same box are less than 0.005. Variations between boxes are 0.01 to 0.015, none less than 0.01.

This was frustrating as last week I opened an 8-lb jug of Ramshot Hunter, and I needed to do some mini load development as it is 40 fps or so faster than the last lot I was using. The bullets will shoot fine, but I'll have to re-do the test because of the seating depth variation/relationship to lands. It's not the end of the world, but had I known I wouldn't have mixed boxes.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Those who have said it might not make a difference, you could be right. I'll shoot what's loaded up (hopefully this weekend) and let you know any difference I see.

Guy, you may be on to something. I buy match bullets (for practice, I don't compete) in larger boxes--maybe Nosler needs to sell 250-bullet boxes of Accubonds?

 

[SJB358]

Not sure why or how I can answer this.
I ran into this last ear with the 7mm 160 gr AB. Scotty had the same problem.

JD338

Yup, same here. Really screwed me actually Joel. I had a TON of 160 AB's that I was shooting and had an AWESOME load for my 7mm WSM. When those ran out, I got new 160's and they were also longer, by a decent amount. Ended up really having to shorten my seating depth to make them shoot. I sent some of the old ones back to Nosler for them to check. They stated it was within their tolerances for hunting bullets, and those older 2nds were probably made at the beginning of a run and the new 160's at the end. Basically, they told me to suck it. So, I just reworked my seating depth and everything went back to where it was supposed to.

It was my only bad experience ever with Nosler.

I would also bet that is why the new ABLR's are going to come in 100 round boxes. That may help to keep lot to lot variation down a little. I bet alot of guys are wishing for 250 count boxes as well.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Not sure why or how I can answer this.
I ran into this last ear with the 7mm 160 gr AB. Scotty had the same problem.

JD338

Yup, same here. Really screwed me actually Joel. I had a TON of 160 AB's that I was shooting and had an AWESOME load for my 7mm WSM. When those ran out, I got new 160's and they were also longer, by a decent amount. Ended up really having to shorten my seating depth to make them shoot. I sent some of the old ones back to Nosler for them to check. They stated it was within their tolerances for hunting bullets, and those older 2nds were probably made at the beginning of a run and the new 160's at the end. Basically, they told me to suck it. So, I just reworked my seating depth and everything went back to where it was supposed to.

It was my only bad experience ever with Nosler.

I would also bet that is why the new ABLR's are going to come in 100 round boxes. That may help to keep lot to lot variation down a little. I bet alot of guys are wishing for 250 count boxes as well.

Scotty,

Cartridge Base To Ogive = CBTO
Overall Length = OAL

In an effort to learn from what happened to you...

Were you measuring bullet seating depth with CBTO, or OAL? When I seat bullets I normally measure via CBTO with a Hornady tool.

My seater die produced both groups with the same OAL, but the variation was in the CBTO measurement (that's how I noticed it, anyway). I could make the OAL for the two bullets the same, and I can make the CBTO the same.

This really gets down to--what's more important from a seating depth perspective--the OAL or the bullets distance away from the lands?

Thanks Scotty! Let me know if I'm not communicating myself well enough!

 

[AzDak42]

It's why I almost never buy a single box of hunting bullets at one time. I'd rather buy 4 or 5 from the same lot so I know I will have consistency over a longer period. And while I can't say where these variations fall in the grand scheme of things, I can say that a few of the match guys I know buy thousands from a single lot to avoid this very problem.

 

[SJB358]

Joel, the ogive was a little different in the old bullets compared to the new. I don't have any to measure, and it was awhile ago, but loading the two bullets, produced two separate OAL's. Didn't think it was a big deal, till I shot. Went from an honest 1/2-3/4" load to over 1.5". I was pretty upset, and with the new bullets, I had to back them WAY off the rifling in order to get them back into small groups.

They do shoot fine, I just didn't like having to change the load up like that, and I didn't agree with Nosler's explanation or resolve in it. They thought I was crazy when I said they changed. They said it was more than likely me.. I had enough of the old one loaded to compare and they were not the same.

Like I said, it happened one time, so I let it slide without too much ruckus.

This was after I reworked it to 2.850

This is where the old ones shot well at 2.995"

I went way down in seating depth in order for them to come back to where they shot well.

 

[Dr. Vette]

Scotty,

Cartridge Base To Ogive = CBTO
Overall Length = OAL

In an effort to learn from what happened to you...

Were you measuring bullet seating depth with CBTO, or OAL? When I seat bullets I normally measure via CBTO with a Hornady tool.

My seater die produced both groups with the same OAL, but the variation was in the CBTO measurement (that's how I noticed it, anyway). I could make the OAL for the two bullets the same, and I can make the CBTO the same.

This really gets down to--what's more important from a seating depth perspective--the OAL or the bullets distance away from the lands?

Thanks Scotty! Let me know if I'm not communicating myself well enough!

I had a length to ogive difference between a couple of boxes of Barnes TTSX's bullets last year, however because I always load the 7mm Weatherby to CBTO there was no difference in how they shot. It worked for me, though it's still good to shoot them and verify.

Just a thought.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Scotty,

Cartridge Base To Ogive = CBTO
Overall Length = OAL

In an effort to learn from what happened to you...

Were you measuring bullet seating depth with CBTO, or OAL? When I seat bullets I normally measure via CBTO with a Hornady tool.

My seater die produced both groups with the same OAL, but the variation was in the CBTO measurement (that's how I noticed it, anyway). I could make the OAL for the two bullets the same, and I can make the CBTO the same.

This really gets down to--what's more important from a seating depth perspective--the OAL or the bullets distance away from the lands?

Thanks Scotty! Let me know if I'm not communicating myself well enough!

I had a length to ogive difference between a couple of boxes of Barnes TTSX's bullets last year, however because I always load the 7mm Weatherby to CBTO there was no difference in how they shot. It worked for me, though it's still good to shoot them and verify.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the tip--that's what I ended up doing last night. Now all the bullets are loaded to the same CBTO, but the OALs vary.

 

[longrangehunter]

I looked at some old notes from November of 2003 for the Nolser 160 AB, I show an average of 10 bullets measuring 1.400" OAL. Don't no way I can find an average ogive length since that's what I always use, but maybe that will help? I just loaded up the last 20 I had on hand a few weeks ago from that same batch or I'd measure the CBTO for you.

 

[joelkdouglas]

An update on this--

I opened and measured a sample of bullets from all 6 boxes I have on hand. Seems there is a pretty broad range of bullet lengths. The oldest bullets were right at Nosler spec of 1.380 inches. The 5 new boxes ranged from 1.384 or 1.385 to 1.396 or 1.397. I happened to open the box that had the 1.397 bullets in it after using 1.380 bullets. Had I opened the box after a 1.388 box I wouldn't have noticed such a big difference. Also, if I hadn't mixed boxes, I wouldn't have noticed a difference at all. Within the same boxes all the bullets were very similar.

As previously mentioned I seated them all to 2.623 CBTO. I hope to shoot them tomorrow, and I'll let you know how it turns out. I suspect I won't see a difference on paper.

 

[Oldtrader3]

Joel, the Partitions (.338) that I have measured were only about .005 different in length. That length difference made a difference in weight as well. Have you checked the weight variation and does it correlate to length?

 

[joelkdouglas]

I ddn't check the weight of any unloaded bulles--I'll do that.

I do commonly sort bullets by weight just before loading, but after mixing the boxes and loading it's water under the bridge. But I can weigh and give an update on length vs weight.

I would bet they're closer than weighing Partitions, though!

 

[bullet]

I have 250 CT BT left and they are the same lot. Will be nursing them and not shooting them much since I am getting such great groups with them.