Powders, help Nosler

[darkknight]

Hi,

I have a question for Nosler. I am a big Nosler fan and use your bullets almost exclusively. My alltime favorite load for moose in my 7mm Rem. Mag. is your 160 gr. Partitions pushed by 63 gr. IMR 4831. These loads shoot great, less then sub moa. Anyways, my question is why dont you guys list loads for Hodgdon Extreme Powders in your reloading manuals? Namely H-4350, H-4831, and H-4831sc? Many people have been switching to these powders due to their consistent performance in all temps. I have been thinking about trying the H-4831 in my 7mm mag and have the Nosler reloading manual #5 but their is no load data. Can you help me guys?

Thanks and keep up the good work.

 

[fredj338]

I know you wante d Nosler to reply, but I have had great luck w/ RL22 & IMR7828 in the 7RM under 160gr bullets. Very accurate & faster than the 4831 loads.

 

[Jaywalker]

I second the request. Regardless of the benefits of standard powders, I've shifted all my reloading to the temperature-insensitive type. It would be great to see Hodgdon Extreme powders reflected in Nosler suggested loads.

Jaywalker

 

[darkknight]

Thanks guys, anyones input is much appreciated. I have been wanting to try RL 22 because of its high velocity potential. I am a little worried though because I have heard from many that at below freezing temps you loose most if not all the velocity benefits anyways. I have wanted to buy a chrony. for a while now to see the actual difference myself. This weekend I am going to sight in for moose season and if I have a chance I will put a few on paper once its below zero and see how much of a POI change it actually makes. With the loads I mentioned earlier that is. For this years moose hunt, which I was lucky enough to draw a bull tag for, I will stick to my favorite and time tested load.

 

[Richracer1]

Here's my .02, with all the powders on the market, I can't see Nosler feasibly test every single one of them, not to mention the size of the reloading manual.

Have you looked at Hodgdon's reloading information? One of my loads deviated from Nosler's recipe by using a different primer, I started low and worked up, looking for pressure signs.
Switching primers, enabled me to have more velocity and smaller groups with the same bullet and powder type.

 

[Jaywalker]

darkknight,

My problem with RL22 was at the other end - hot weather. I load in my basement at around 70F, and my shooting sometimes is above 90F - I started seeing excessive pressure signs. Yeah, I know, back off a grain for hotter weather, but how do you work up a load for Fall hunting like that?

In that last case, I shot a three-shot group at hunting-type speed, i.e., no barrel cooldown between shots. The first shot primer was fine, the second very flat. I'm not entirely certain why I fired the the third shot, but I did - flattened, punctured primer.

I understand that isn't an endictment of the powder, per se. It might be the headspace, but it's more likely reloading error. The rifle was just back from Ruger for a headspace problem, so that wasn't likely it. I can't rule out excessive powder, but I did stop firing at that point and pulled the bullets from the next two cartridges in line and weighed them - right on weight.

Rightly or wrongly, I blame the outside air temperature and the temperature of the chamber and barrel for this pressure event, and gave away a pound and a half of RL22 and moved entirely to Hodgdon Extreme line for its temperature-insensitive nature. I may try Ramshot in the future, but I may not - Hodgdon works for me.

Jaywalker

 

[darkknight]

Well I understand they cant put every powder out there in the book. And they do put some Hodgdon stuff in them, but Im just saying there should be more of the main Hodgdon powders for each caliber. Its not like Hodgdon isnt a mainstream powder heck they now own IMR. In fact, Hodgdon is much more popular then Vihtavuori and there seems to be more loads for it. Im sure if Nosler did a pole, far more people would want to see reloading data for Hodgdon then Vihtavuori. And now that H870 is discontinued, maybe they can replace the loads for that with H-4831 and or some others. Maybe they are planning on it, I guess we'll see when they answer.

 

[2ndtimer]

Let's be fair. AS Richracer pointed out, Nosler (nor anyone else) can test and publish all possible powder, primer, bullet, and case combinations for all calibers. What they try to do is provide a cross section sample of available powders that showed good results in their testing. Sadly, that does not mean that the combinations that they had success with guarantees success with your unique rifle.
As for the "Extreme" powders, I am not overly convinced by Hodgdon's marketing department as to their superiority over other powders. In my testing with my .270WSM, I have found the Vihtavuori N-165 to be at least as consistent at various temeratures from 20° to over 90° Fahrenheit as the purported H-4831 Extreme. IMR-4350 has also performed very consistently for me. Granted Reloader 19 and 22 have showed some significant variation, particularly from lot to lot, but they still work reasonably well. The main claim to Hodgdon's extreme powder is their consistency at lower temperatures, they acknowledge that ALL powders will increase pressure at higher temperatures and the faster you heat up your chamber, the higher your pressure goes. Allowing the barrel and chamber to cool between shots will also extend your barrel's life.
Ultimately, it is up to the individual shooter/handloader to try out different combos in his own rifle under varying conditions to find his own optimum load. The loading data is available from a myriad of sources. Just start low and work up gradually watching for pressure signs and if possible, use a chronograph to help estimate pressures from the velocities. Stay safe and good luck.

 

[darkknight]

As I said, I understand Nosler and all other bullet makers cannot put loads for all available powders, but I was just hoping to find out if they will be including more hodgdon loads in their new manual for the 7mm Rem. Mag. 160 gr. bullets. Namely, slower powders like H-4831 and H-1000. Who knows maybe they have already done some testing and can give me some load data. Also I just wanted to bring to their attention the fact that more and more people are trying/switching to Hodgdon's Extreme series powders and in lue of that fact maybe they might put more data for them in their manuals. Hopefully, we will hear from them soon.

 

[fredj338]

Jaywalker, you need to let the chamber cool down on hot days especially if you are shooting near max. loads. When you chamber a round things start heating up very quickly, brass transfers heat quite well.

 

[Richracer1]

As I said, I understand Nosler and all other bullet makers cannot put loads for all available powders, but I was just hoping to find out if they will be including more hodgdon loads in their new manual for the 7mm Rem. Mag. 160 gr. bullets. Namely, slower powders like H-4831 and H-1000. Who knows maybe they have already done some testing and can give me some load data. Also I just wanted to bring to their attention the fact that more and more people are trying/switching to Hodgdon's Extreme series powders and in lue of that fact maybe they might put more data for them in their manuals. Hopefully, we will hear from them soon.

Nosler isn't my only source of reloading info. I frequently check what Hodgdon and Alliant have listed either on their web sites or manuals I can get for free (Hodgdon's Basic Manual is free), since those are the two main manufacturers I use.

 

[Jaywalker]

fred338:

Jaywalker, you need to let the chamber cool down on hot days especially if you are shooting near max. loads. When you chamber a round things start heating up very quickly, brass transfers heat quite well.

Fred, that would be true if I were looking to see the best performance for my loads, but as I mentioned in this case, it's a hunting load, fired at hunting speed - three shots, no cool down. Had I cooled the barrel and chamber down during tests, I would only have discovered the pressure anomaly on a hunt, possibly freezing the bolt.

I'm less suspicious of Hodgdon's temperature-less-sensitive powder than are some folks. As I said, it works for me - accuracy in all temperatures, no pressure events, and it's readily available. I hope Nosler will report some ;oads with some Hodgdon powders...

Jaywalker

 

[john-brennan]

Hey darkknight, i have had great success with H1000, my fav. load is 80gr. of H870 for 3100fps with160 partitions in a 24'' tube,less than 1 inch MOA. I realize it is out of production but if you can find it buy it, i found 7lbs. just by posting that i was looking for it.