primer piercing issue with 338 EDGE

[remingtonman_25_06]

Was out shooting my 338 EDGE today and getting the bugs worked out of the drop chart.

I bought a new can of H1000 and I knew the lots have been on the hotter side. So I backed off to 91g instead of the usual 92g that I use. I loaded up 50 and shot about 25 of them with no problems. Today I set up on the 800 yard gong and I fire and notice something just wasn't right. Different kick, different sound, and holy $hit, smoke coming from my acion!! Checked my face to make sure I was still alive and everythign was all good. So I proceed to lift the bolt, (which wasn't hard to lift at all BTW) and out comes the case with a pierced primer. My first issue with this combo in almost 200 rounds. I"m not exactly sure if it was a hot load or not. If it was, wouldn't the primer have popped out of the case?? The primer is still tight and flush.

I called a few people when I was out there and got a few different answers. One guy says dont shoot nemore, another says shoot one through the cronograph.

I had my cronograph with me so I decided to set it up real quick and shoot a shot through it. I put on some safety glasses this time just in case the piercing issue happened again. The reading of this shot was 2920fps. This is out of a 28" bbl w/300g SMK, 91g H1000, CCI 250, 3.780" OAL. The primer did not pierce on this one. I only shot the 1 shell through the cronograph. I did however proceed to shoot 4-5 more rounds at the 1100 yard gong, all with no pierced primers.

Do you think that primer possibly had a weak cup??

Or do I definately need to back down my charge to my originaly velocity of 2825-2840fps, wherever that may be with this new lot??

I just dont see how only 1 of them has done it when I've shot probly close to 75 of those loads doing 2900-2925fps. None of the cases really seem to show any real signs of high pressure, thats why it never occured to me that I was running that high of velocity.

I know there was a recent discussion on this just a bit ago, and I had the same result with the prior pound of H1000. I put in the standard 92g and didn't even think to recrono them. When the talk around here was going on, I went and cronoed them loads and was getting 2925-2950fps. I never did have any problems with those that I loaded at 92g, no pierced primers or hard bolt lift anyways. But I know that velocity is definately pressure related, so Thats why when I got this last recent pound of H1000, I backed off to 91g. Guess maybe it wasn't enough??

I might just have to back down to around 90g or 89.5g to get back down to 2825-2840fps.

I have 15 or so shells still loaded, what would you guys do? Shoot the rest of them up, or pull them and use the components to rework the load to my original velocity.

Thanks

Original work up with this combo was 92g H1000 which gave me 2840fps.

So now I obviously know this particular can of H100 is a bit warmer.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

What primers are you using?

 

[DrMike]

I would not expect that piercing of the primer is an issue of high pressure in this instance. You mention no other pressure signs. Was there evident cratering on any of the other expended primers? Was there noticeably heavy bolt lift on any of the other rounds? Is there evidence of excessive stretching at the web? If not, I'd look for another cause.

You are right that the primer is more likely to back out at high pressure than it is to pierce the primer. The thing that suggests itself to me is that you may have had a high primer. Rather than failing to ignite (which would have been the more usual response to a high primer), your firing pin pierced the primer. Perhaps this was because there was sufficient tension in the primer pocket. While your velocity was somewhat higher, I would be loathe to draw a conclusion on one shot. Perhaps you are tickling the dragon's tail, but the fact that you saw no other pressure signs would indicate that you are within pressure limits.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I am using CCI 250's.

Like I said, no evidence of high pressure on the other cases. No hard bolt lift, or heavily cratered primers. There is somewhat faint circular marks on the casehead, but its very small, and not real noticable. Can I take the web reading with a standard caliper?? Haven't ever used that as a source of high pressure.

2920fps is pushing this cartridge limits quite a bit with the 300g SMK w/28" bbl. This cartridge is very comfortable in the 2800fps range with H1000. QL is predicing 2775fps or so at 90.5g as there MAX load at 65K. I know my usual load of 92g at 2840fps is pretty warm, but to have it up to 2925-2950fps (prior outing couple months ago) its definately got to be up there in pressure, definately over 70K.

I use the RCBS hand primer tool and usually double if not triple check (prior to firing) to make sure all primers are seated below flush and tight, these were no exception.

Temps will be in the 20's-40's during elk season so that will help with the pressure some, and it has only happened once, so I may just go head and shoot them. Elk season is only 2.5 weeks away and I only ahve 65 bullets left. Dont have a whole lot of time or bullets to mess with. Then theres buying a new can of powder and starting all over again!

 

[Desert Fox]

2950? I'd say that load is way too hot. I can't even get that velocity with my 338 Lapua Improved with 30" barrel. I could! but I don't like the extractor mark in my brass so I keep it at 2850 to 2875 fps range. I can use H-1000 but I like Retumbo better. It's more consistent and stable than H-1000.

No need to push the 300 SMK passed the 2875 fps mark. With that velocity, you can get to a mile with enough energy to kill anything.

I hunt mostly between 2000 to 3500 feet altitude. At these altitude, the 300 SMK will have 1300 fps remaining velocity and 1100 ft/lb of energy left at a mile mark.

 

[Guest]

what brand dies are you using?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Yep, 2950fps was the highest reading I got a month or 2 back when I was still using 92g H1000. 2900 was the lowest.

THats exactly what I was thinking. Just to damn fast, means its to dam hot, thats why I backed down to 91g with this new batch, but am still in the 2900fps range.

I noticed these haven't been as accurate at this higher velocity/pressure.

My original work up shows 92g H1000 giving 2840fps, and 93g giving 2880fps. I went with 92g simply for the better ES and easier on brass, etc...However, I"ve only been able to buy powder in 1lb canisters and this is the 4th one in about 2 years. They just seem to be getting faster and faster.

I am using RCBS dies.

 

[Desert Fox]

However, I"ve only been able to buy powder in 1lb canisters and this is the 4th one in about 2 years. They just seem to be getting faster and faster.

There lies your problem. H-1000 is a darn good powder but I could never get consistency from lot to lot with it, much like Reloader 22. I found this out when I was using it on my 300 Winnie. It's the reason why I switched to IMR 7828. Try Retumbo and you're not gonna have this problem. Also stay with Federal 215 primer if you can!!! The cup on the CCI is just too darn soft. If you cannot find Federal, get the new Winchester WMR with brass cup. they're as good as the Federal 215.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

It was always my understanding that Winchester had the softest primers, and CCI were the hardest. I've pierced Winchester and Federal primers in the past, but CCI's usually blow out of the pocket. In my experience, it's easier to read the pressure signs on Winchester and Federal primers then it is on CCI primers. The softer material will cup and crater better making it easier to see.

Overall, I agree with DF. Load sounds a little warm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Edge is built off the .338 RUM?

Well you are shooting a 300gr bullet at the same velocity the RUM shoots a 250gr bullet.

Considering you only get about 75 shots per pound, you may wish to consider a 8 pound keg to help eliminate the lot to lot variations.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

The EDGE is built off the 300 RUM, not the 338 RUM. Its the 300 RUM case necked up to 338.

Well it turns out I happen to have 500 of the Fed215's from my 7 Mag, so I might try a few with them and also try some Retumbo the next time around. I'll likely finish this batch with H1000 and CCI 250's though since I dont have the time to fiddle with a whole new load. I am going to definately try some F215's w/Retumbo though.

I cant really afford to buy an 8# of powder. I know it would really really help me, but I just cant do it.

 

[JD338]

Remmy,

Thanks for the call yesterday.
I think you have a hot lot of H1000, best to back off to the 2850 fps mark and go from there.
Let us know what Shawn has to say.

JD338

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

No problem JD.

I definately got a hotter lot this time around and the last time.

I have heard from a few guys that Retumbo is better from lot to lot variation then H1000 and a few guys have also had better luck with the Fed215. My 25-06 loves Retumbo as well, so I might be able to convince the wife to get an 8# keg if I can get the EDGE to shoot well with it.

I think I"ll pull my remaining 15 rounds and back off to 89g, then load the final 50 bullets I have also with 89g. That should put me back in the 2825fps ballpark which is where its a little more at home.

 

[JD338]

Remmy,

Retumbo is the cats meow in my 338 RUM with 250 gr bullets. I have not noticed any lot to lot variation and seems to be temperature stable.
Might be worth a try in your 338 Edge sometime.

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Hey Remmy as soon as you can, pick up an 8# keg. It will actually save you money vs. buying a bunch of 1# cans. I bought an 8# keg 3 yrs ago and I'm still using it, even with 3 RUMs and multiple loads per RUM feeding off of it.

 

[JD338]

Remmy,

How did you make out?
Hear back from Shawn yet?

JD338