QL Request 35 Whelen

[truck driver]

It would be a cool set up. That's for sure.

You aren't helping none. Thinking an AI off 280AI brass in the Winchester M70.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Yeah since the shoulder is .050" farther forward!!

 

[truck driver]

Here is what QL looks like with a 62K PSI and 225 Sierra and RL17..

Cartridge : .35 Whelen
Bullet : .358, 225, Sierra SPBT 2850
Useable Case Capaci: 63.217 grain H2O = 4.105 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 88 53.61 2242 2511 29610 6865 89.7 1.493
-18.0 90 54.95 2302 2648 31719 7098 91.2 1.450
-16.0 92 56.29 2363 2790 33993 7321 92.6 1.408
-14.0 94 57.63 2424 2936 36445 7532 93.9 1.367
-12.0 96 58.97 2486 3086 39096 7730 95.0 1.324
-10.0 99 60.31 2547 3241 41962 7914 96.1 1.281
-08.0 101 61.65 2609 3400 45069 8082 97.0 1.239
-06.0 103 62.99 2670 3563 48438 8233 97.9 1.200
-04.0 105 64.33 2732 3730 52092 8366 98.5 1.161
-02.0 107 65.67 2794 3900 56088 8480 99.1 1.124 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 110 67.01 2855 4074 60440 8573 99.5 1.088 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 112 68.35 2917 4251 65202 8645 99.8 1.053 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 114 69.69 2978 4431 70423 8695 100.0 1.019 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 116 71.03 3039 4614 76166 8722 100.0 0.987 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 118 72.37 3099 4800 82498 8740 100.0 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 121 73.71 3160 4989 89512 8753 100.0 0.925 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 110 67.01 2991 4469 73502 8154 100.0 1.006 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 110 67.01 2657 3527 49075 8474 93.9 1.196


Pretty impressive stuff.. Be fun to see how much 17 you could get in the case.

Scotty I went looking for some of my old QL request and found this one so I loaded up 3 each of 66grs and 67grs in Remington brass to see what I could get out of my rifle. If the rain holds off tomorrow I've got a bunch of stuff loaded to test.

 

[SJB358]

Very nice. Raining like a devil here in VA. Hope your able to get out and test it.

I'd back off a little more on charges though. 17 has gotten more speed per grain for me in a few cartridges than what QL shows.

 

[truck driver]

These are in the AI case so I think I'll be alright but if the the first ones are fast I'll check pressure and hold the the rest if way out of line.

 

[Bonz]

The 225 Sierra is as short or shorter than the 200 TTSX or AB, RL 17 is gonna be a great powder for that bullet. I will be chronographing some RL17/225 BT loads tomorrow (35 Whelen AI) along with a number of loads with the 200 TTSX and XBR8208, TAC, RL17.

 

[Bonz]

Here is a unique QL request for my 35 AI.

-I would like a QL for the 225 Barnes XLC (blue coated) using IMR 4064 and IMR 4320. Interested how that bullet is accounted for by QL, as it easily reduces pressures with equal powder charges based on my experience and allows for a legitimately higher charge weight boosting velocities. I have a couple boxes left and would like to play with them a bit.

When Barnes introduced the TSX, I was able to shoot some early 200 TSX bullets for evaluation. I asked a lot of questions comparing them to the XLC which was discontinued.

The TSX was to replace the XLC because the XLC production process was fairly involved (had to produce bullets at less than full diameter, as the coating once applied and baked on added diameter) and accuracy was no better or worse than the original X.

The TSX still lowered pressures and gained velocity but not to the degree of the XLC bullets. Kind of an in-between from the original X style and the XLC. Main goal of the TSX was to reduce fouling, which I feel it did. Also accuracy was improved across the board in general with lower velocity threshold for expansion.

Now, with the TTSX the nose cavity is much larger in diameter behind the tip, and the tip pushes back to initiate faster initial expansion, however no more or less total expansion thus maintaining the incredible penetration. The two elk I have taken with the 200 TTSX have had greater tissue disruption upon entry and carried further through the wound channel than the original X, with through and through penetration. Tissue disruption to my eye appears to be less than a blunt lead mushroom pushing through tissue after initial expansion (X bullets "cut" vs mash the tissue for lack of a better description) but more than the original X which made nice large holes but not as much jelly-like tissue damage unless bone was struck.

 

[SJB358]

That's a great explanation.

I saw the same with the 180 XLCs from a 300 Win Mag. They'd penetrate far and break a lot of bone but be relatively narrow in a wound channel unless a heavy bone was crushed.

 

[Dwh7271]

-I would like a QL for the 225 Barnes XLC (blue coated) using IMR 4064 and IMR 4320.

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'XLC' S 35826
Useable Case Capaci: 65.090 grain H2O = 4.226 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.176% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-01.8  102    57.90   2662    3541   56953   7295     98.5    1.163  ! Near Maximum !
-01.6  102    58.00   2667    3553   57250   7305     98.6    1.160  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4  103    58.11   2671    3564   57548   7315     98.6    1.158  ! Near Maximum !
-01.2  103    58.21   2675    3576   57848   7324     98.6    1.156  ! Near Maximum !
-01.1  103    58.32   2680    3587   58150   7334     98.7    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
-00.9  103    58.42   2684    3599   58454   7343     98.7    1.151  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7  103    58.52   2688    3610   58759   7352     98.8    1.148  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5  103    58.63   2693    3622   59066   7362     98.8    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-00.4  104    58.73   2697    3634   59375   7371     98.8    1.144  ! Near Maximum !
-00.2  104    58.84   2701    3645   59685   7380     98.9    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  104    58.94   2705    3657   59998   7389     98.9    1.139  ! Near Maximum !
+00.2  104    59.04   2710    3669   60312   7398     98.9    1.136  ! Near Maximum !
+00.4  104    59.15   2714    3680   60628   7407     99.0    1.134  ! Near Maximum !
+00.5  105    59.25   2718    3692   60946   7416     99.0    1.131  ! Near Maximum !
+00.7  105    59.36   2723    3704   61265   7425     99.0    1.128  ! Near Maximum !
+00.9  105    59.46   2727    3715   61586   7433     99.1    1.125  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    104    58.94   2762    3812   65024   7312     99.9    1.101  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    104    58.94   2639    3480   55050   7382     97.0    1.176  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .35 Whelen Ack. Imp.
Bullet             : .358, 225, Barnes 'XLC' S 35826
Useable Case Capaci: 65.090 grain H2O = 4.226 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder             : IMR 4320

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.171% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-01.7  101    59.75   2700    3641   57106   7487     98.8    1.144  ! Near Maximum !
-01.5  101    59.85   2704    3653   57408   7496     98.8    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
-01.4  102    59.96   2708    3665   57710   7505     98.9    1.140  ! Near Maximum !
-01.2  102    60.06   2713    3676   58014   7514     98.9    1.137  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  102    60.17   2717    3688   58320   7523     99.0    1.135  ! Near Maximum !
-00.9  102    60.27   2721    3700   58627   7532     99.0    1.133  ! Near Maximum !
-00.7  102    60.37   2726    3711   58937   7541     99.0    1.130  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5  102    60.48   2730    3723   59250   7549     99.1    1.128  ! Near Maximum !
-00.3  103    60.58   2734    3735   59563   7558     99.1    1.126  ! Near Maximum !
-00.2  103    60.69   2739    3747   59870   7567     99.1    1.124  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  103    60.79   2743    3759   60187   7575     99.1    1.121  ! Near Maximum !
+00.2  103    60.89   2747    3770   60514   7584     99.2    1.119  ! Near Maximum !
+00.3  103    61.00   2751    3782   60836   7592     99.2    1.116  ! Near Maximum !
+00.5  104    61.10   2756    3794   61160   7600     99.2    1.113  ! Near Maximum !
+00.7  104    61.21   2760    3806   61483   7608     99.3    1.110  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.9  104    61.31   2764    3818   61810   7616     99.3    1.108  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    103    60.79   2801    3920   65578   7474    100.0    1.083  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    103    60.79   2674    3572   55069   7580     97.3    1.158  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Bonz]

Thank you for the QL on the XLC! The velocities don't appear to be higher than a standard 225 grain X bullet in terms of what QL is saying. I gather the 77.2 gr H2O capacity of my fired 35 AI case was used?

A request, please, for QL using the original 225 X bullet with either IMR 4064 or 4320. Interested in the comparison vs the XLC.