Quickload request for 6.5x55, 140 gr Ballistic Tip. VVN160 p

Jimbeaux82 · Jan 25, 2018

Would someone please run a Quickload for 6.5 x 55, 140 gr Ballistic Tip, VV N160 powder, 20" barrel, strong CZ550 action, CCI 200 primers?

As for case, I am using 3 different brands, Remington, PPU and Federal. I am getting occassional blown primers with the Federal cases but same load with the other 2 seems fine. Load I am using is 46 grains which is below the 46.7 grs max in the VV manual. Trying to figure out what is going on and hope QL will help. May have to ditch the Federal cases and stick to the other 2.

Thanks

Jimbeaux

DrMike · Jan 25, 2018

Code:

Cartridge          : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet             : .264, 140, Nosler BalTip 26140
Useable Case Capaci: 52.093 grain H2O = 3.382 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.150 inch = 80.01 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N160

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   92    42.39   2319    1672   39685  11163     90.8    1.321
-09.0   93    42.86   2346    1710   40939  11319     91.4    1.301
-08.0   94    43.33   2372    1749   42227  11473     91.9    1.282
-07.0   95    43.80   2399    1788   43551  11625     92.4    1.263
-06.0   96    44.27   2425    1828   44914  11774     93.0    1.244
-05.0   97    44.75   2452    1868   46320  11920     93.4    1.226
-04.0   98    45.22   2478    1909   47772  12064     93.9    1.208  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   99    45.69   2505    1950   49270  12205     94.4    1.190  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0  100    46.16   2531    1992   50817  12343     94.8    1.173  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  101    46.63   2558    2034   52414  12477     95.3    1.156  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  102    47.10   2585    2077   54063  12609     95.7    1.139  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  103    47.57   2612    2120   55767  12737     96.1    1.123  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  104    48.04   2638    2164   57527  12861     96.4    1.106  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  105    48.51   2665    2208   59345  12982     96.8    1.090  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  106    48.98   2692    2253   61224  13099     97.1    1.075  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  107    49.46   2719    2298   63167  13211     97.5    1.059  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    102    47.10   2715    2292   63811  12734     99.4    1.057  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    102    47.10   2420    1820   44532  11928     88.4    1.244

Case capacity for each brand may vary significantly, effecting maximum chamber pressure. You will need to measure case overflow capacity for each brand to get more precise results. Measure maximum case capacity with deoxygenated water for each case type and provide OAL for your cartridge so that a more precise projection can be afforded.

Jimbeaux82 · Jan 25, 2018

Deoxygenated ? Can I just use tap water or distilled water?

DrMike · Jan 25, 2018

Deoxygenate. Simply allow the water to set overnight uncovered. There will be sufficient exchange with atmospheric oxygen to avoid measurement errors. Tare the once-fired case before adding water with a pipette until you form a convex meniscus above the mouth of the case. Some people boil the water, which does drive off oxygen. However, since you want the water to be at room temperature when you weight, letting it set out is sufficient without worrying about inadvertently introducing temperature-related errors.

SJB358 · Jan 26, 2018

I bought into a bunch of Federal cases for the 270 Win. Upon second firing with normal loads running a 130 at 3050 I was losing primers. I tossed the whole lot of them. Winchester cases take the same load without a hiccup. I wouldn't chalk much up to the results of the cases, since Federal has always seemed hit or miss with cases. I have 338 WM cases I can't kill after numerous loads, but others get almost no firings before failure.

Jimbeaux82 · Jan 26, 2018

OK Dr Mike,

you have reawakened the engineer in me (retired engineer). Be prepared cause you may have created a little monster! Ha ha! So I took distilled water, opened and let it sit overnight to deoxygenate. I took 3 fired cases (FC, RP, PPU) and trimmed to 2.158". Filled with above mentioned water with miniscus and weighed. Resluts as follows

FC empty wt 184.0 grs filled wt 243.4 grs water wt 59.4 grs

PPU empty wt 180.7 grs filled wt 240.6 grs water wt 59.9 grs

RP empty wt 176.9 grs filled wt 236.8 grs water wt 59.9 grs

Load length I am using is 3.120" which is about .025" off lands

Can you please re-run QL and see what difference these could make?

Scotty - I am with you. I think it is a FC brass problem which is a pitty cause I have a bunch of it. Oh well.

Thanks

Jimbeaux

SJB358 · Jan 26, 2018

Jim, none of those case capacities are different enough to cause wildly different pressure. I'd bet money it is your brass vs your actual load.

I feel your pain, I thought I was getting a deal on the FC brass.. Should've just bought half as much Lapua from the get go and I would have been money ahead.

DrMike · Jan 26, 2018

Scotty is spot on in his assessment. Yet, for completeness sake, here are the numbers.

Federal Cartridge:

Code:

Cartridge          : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet             : .264, 140, Nosler BalTip 26140
Useable Case Capaci: 54.171 grain H2O = 3.517 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.120 inch = 79.25 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N160

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   91    43.56   2340    1702   39954  11484     91.4    1.323
-09.0   92    44.04   2366    1741   41193  11642     92.0    1.303
-08.0   93    44.53   2393    1780   42469  11799     92.5    1.284
-07.0   94    45.01   2419    1820   43785  11953     93.0    1.265
-06.0   95    45.50   2446    1860   45143  12104     93.5    1.247
-05.0   96    45.98   2472    1900   46542  12252     93.9    1.228
-04.0   97    46.46   2499    1941   47986  12398     94.4    1.210  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   98    46.95   2526    1983   49475  12541     94.9    1.193  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   99    47.43   2552    2025   51011  12680     95.3    1.175  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  100    47.92   2579    2068   52595  12816     95.7    1.158  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  101    48.40   2606    2111   54231  12949     96.1    1.142  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  102    48.88   2632    2154   55919  13078     96.5    1.125  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  103    49.37   2659    2198   57661  13204     96.8    1.109  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  104    49.85   2686    2242   59461  13326     97.2    1.093  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  105    50.34   2712    2287   61319  13443     97.5    1.078  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  106    50.82   2739    2332   63238  13557     97.8    1.063  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    101    48.40   2735    2325   63888  13041     99.6    1.060  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    101    48.40   2441    1853   44760  12284     89.0    1.247

RP & PPU:

Code:

Cartridge          : 6.5 x 55 Swedish
Bullet             : .264, 140, Nosler BalTip 26140
Useable Case Capaci: 54.671 grain H2O = 3.550 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.120 inch = 79.25 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder             : Vihtavuori N160

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   91    43.83   2344    1708   39989  11561     91.5    1.323
-09.0   92    44.32   2370    1747   41225  11720     92.1    1.304
-08.0   93    44.80   2397    1786   42500  11877     92.6    1.284
-07.0   94    45.29   2423    1826   43814  12031     93.1    1.266
-06.0   95    45.78   2450    1866   45169  12183     93.6    1.247
-05.0   96    46.27   2477    1907   46566  12333     94.1    1.229
-04.0   97    46.75   2503    1948   48006  12479     94.5    1.211  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   98    47.24   2530    1989   49492  12622     94.9    1.193  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   99    47.73   2556    2031   51024  12762     95.4    1.176  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0  100    48.21   2583    2074   52604  12899     95.8    1.159  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  101    48.70   2610    2117   54235  13032     96.2    1.143  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0  102    49.19   2636    2161   55918  13161     96.5    1.126  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0  103    49.67   2663    2205   57655  13287     96.9    1.110  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  104    50.16   2690    2249   59448  13409     97.2    1.094  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  105    50.65   2716    2294   61300  13527     97.5    1.079  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  106    51.14   2743    2339   63212  13641     97.8    1.063  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba    101    48.70   2738    2331   63865  13117     99.6    1.061  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba    101    48.70   2445    1859   44787  12369     89.2    1.248

As you can see, there isn't much "there" there.

Jimbeaux82 · Jan 27, 2018

Thanks - that confirms to me it is a brass issue.

Dr Mike - thanks so much for your unceasing efforts and wisdom on this forum. This is the best handloading forum in existence thanks to your efforts and others like Scotty, Guy Miner, Fotis and so many others who share their knowledge and QL programs.

Have a great day

Jimbeaux