Reloading 3 rifles for Elk loads..

[ReloadKy]

I have decided to wok on "potential" elk loads for 3 different rifles that I own. My question is what would you elk hunters recommend on obtaining velocities with the bullets / rifle calibers listed below:
I know the more velocity the better but I am trying to learn a lot here and want to leave no stone unturned. These velocities are for normal hunting distances under 400 yd. I believe I have a pretty good baseline knowledge of the ballistics of the rifles / loads but want to get some more input from experienced folks.
7mm-08 with 140 gr Barnes TTSX or 140gr Accubonds
308 with 150gr Barnes TTSX or 150gr Accubonds
30-06 with 165 gr Barnes TTSX or 165gr Accubonds

 

[6mm Remington]

In two 30-06 rifles I have owned, a Remington 700 and a Ruger 1B, both have really liked IMR4350. The Accubonds were not out yet when I owned the Remington 700, but the Ruger really likes both the 165 gr. Partition and the 165 gr. AccuBond. Seems like 56-58 grs. of IMR4350 is kind of a sweet spot. I also think that H4350 would be an excellent powder to try.
Here is my load but of course work up to it as you normally would. This exact load worked perfectly for both bullets also. I never had to change a thing.
30-06
57.4 grs. of IMR4350
Federal 210 primers

 

[TackDriver284]

I would go with Accubonds, they give sufficient expansion at short and long range with slow to medium velocities. The Barnes TTSX would need to be at a fast pace to expand to its potential at longer distance. TTSX will do the job well at short distances with slow / medium velocities. Both will do the job though. It's the " what if " the elk are at a longer distance.

 

[Blkram]

I will always pick an AccuBond over a Barnes (as I do not have to restrict my choices to lead-free bullets), as they are easier to find good loads for, whereas the Barnes are finicky; if your rifle likes them, it will love them. If not, you'll likely not find a decent load with them in that rifle.

Personally, I like either a little more bullet weight, or velocity for elk loads.
While a 7mm-08 with 140 gr ABs will certainly kill an elk, it better be an unwary animal feeding peacefully, broadside, within range where that bullet is still retaining a minimum of 1500 ft lbs at the animal. And you better not hit that onside shoulder bone where it is thick and heavy, as the bullet will not make it through to the vitals, and you'll have a wounded elk to try to finish off. (As this quite a different animal to shoot than the bugling bull, full of adrenaline that isn't broadside.)
(I made this mistake on a cow elk at 370 yards with the 6.5x55 and 140 gr Partitions many years ago. I got her, but it took a bt to get closer, a couple of follow up shots to do it, and she suffered needlessly until I got closer and finished her. Hope others can learn from that mistake)

In the 30 cals, due to the lower velocity of the 308, I would prefer the 180 AB, and limit shots to closer distances, and it will do just fine.
The 30-06 has an edge here, but I still like the 180 gr AB better for its extra weight and SD for better penetration. If these loads are specific to elk, opt for the 30-06 and 180 gr AB, and leave the elk work for this one rifle. If they are for the rare opportunity for elk that may come up and the rifles are primarily for other species, than restrict your shots to those where your likelihood of success is in your favour.

Another option is try the Federal Terminal Ascent ammunition in your 308 and 30-06. It comes with a 175 gr bullet that is designed to perform under higher, and lower impact velocities than other bullets, and may be just the ticket you are looking for. Components are available, but not yet as common in all areas.
I have good results to date in a couple of rifles, and on-game performance as been very good, with one-shot kills on several animals (red stag, fallow buck, arapawa rams and caribou) at distances ranging from 43 to 296 yards. (The latter, a red stag in the roar. While not as large or tenacious as a bull elk in the rut, a larger animal than the average deer, that weighed approx 450 lbs on the hoof. And the 6.5 CM ammo still retained approx 1650 ft lbs of energy, and completely passed through the stag on the quartering away double-lung hit. He took a few steps and fell just before I was about to pull the trigger for a follow up shot.)

As stated above, it is not what your cartridge/bullet combination will do under perfect circumstances, but what it can do when everything does not go as planned. Chasing wounded elk is no fun, as they can go miles even when severely wounded!
Worse yet, is losing that animal because you didn't account for less than perfect scenarios, and take a shot that probably should never have been taken in the first place. This is not a lesson you want to learn first hand!

 

[salmonchaser]

Been loading 180 partitions for elk since about 1967 in the 06. I killed upwards of 20 with that combination, most well inside 400 yards. H4350 or Rl 22 worked just fine. I then switched to a variety of cartridges having settled on a fast 33 for elk.
My brother is still hunting with an 06. I load for him and the last, well since the AccuBond came out, he's been shooting Accubonds.
He's been shooting 61.5 gr. Rl 22 to great affect.
I know a number of guys who use 165s out of the 06; it'll work.
I load 140 Accubonds in my 275 Rigby (7x57). For deer and elk. I'm getting 2950 out of a Ruger #1 using Rl 17; but it's an awful hot load. Grand daughter uses it for elk.
I carried a 308 as a duty rifle but never hunted four legged critters with one. Seems at its best with 165 s.
With your criteria and rifle battery I would pick the 06/180/2850 + velocity @ 1moa.
After that get off the bench and shoot. If at any time you are faced with the decision, go shoot or go for a run, go work out.
Pushing 60 years of elk hunting and most of the tags I've seen go unfilled were due to poor condition not poor shooting.

 

[RL338]

Barnes need speed to work. Out to 400yds in the calibers you listed the AccuBond will serve to better.

 

[filmjunkie4ever]

I can personally vouch that the .30-06 with 165 grain AccuBond is a great elk load!!

 

[jjs405]

I would have to pull my load data for the exact powder weight, but I hunted with my 30-06 on elk for decades using Nosler's Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertip's in 180gr with around 54.gr's of 760 which in my rifle gave me great accuracy & chrono'd in at about 2700 fps.

Personally I did not like partitions because too many were having core separation and I settled on regular silvertips but switched to Nosler's Combined Technology Ballistic Silvertip & never looked back.

When the 30 Nosler came out I switched to that set up & after a few years of confidence building it's now my go to rifle.

 

[TexasLife]

I have decided to wok on "potential" elk loads for 3 different rifles that I own. My question is what would you elk hunters recommend on obtaining velocities with the bullets / rifle calibers listed below:
I know the more velocity the better but I am trying to learn a lot here and want to leave no stone unturned. These velocities are for normal hunting distances under 400 yd. I believe I have a pretty good baseline knowledge of the ballistics of the rifles / loads but want to get some more input from experienced folks.
7mm-08 with 140 gr Barnes TTSX or 140gr Accubonds
308 with 150gr Barnes TTSX or 150gr Accubonds
30-06 with 165 gr Barnes TTSX or 165gr Accubonds

140ab in 7-08 is what a friend of mine used to kill his elk (not sure how many). i'm sure it was inside 400 yards.

 

[300WSM]

I will always pick an AccuBond over a Barnes (as I do not have to restrict my choices to lead-free bullets), as they are easier to find good loads for, whereas the Barnes are finicky; if your rifle likes them, it will love them. If not, you'll likely not find a decent load with them in that rifle.

This statement was dead on two-three decades ago.

Barnes are as good as any other top bullet out there.
Any rifle can like bullet A over bullet B and that's just how that is but to say Barnes will have you smiling or chasing your tail more than other bullets is not being fair.

At one time...yes. Same with their hardness.

 

[diverdown]

A lot of good information for Elk Loads. My only thought would be when you're out over three hundred yards you are stretching it for the 7MM-08. A good friend of mine shot a nice Bull Elk at 346 yards using a Partition and the performance wasn't what he expected. The Elk was hit in a good spot but lacked sufficient penetration. We had quite a lot of tracking work prior to successfully taking the elk.

 

[HeathSexton]

I carried 140 Accubonds in my 708 on my elk hunt. 48grs of h4350 in ww brass and cci200’s.


Mine was under MOA out to 600yds.

 

[SJB358]

I’d not fret a 7-08 and a good bullet myself. At least to 400 and likely a bit further with the right bullet. I opt for more but no way I’d sit home with a good 7-08 and a quality bullet.

My opinion is if you think a 7-08 is too light you’re condemning a 270 and a slew of other great killers.

 

[Bearclaw]

Took my first bull elk this year @ 440yds using 165gr AccuBond in 30-06 loaded @ 2950fps. The 180’s are great as well, and I’d use them without hesitation. I can’t speak to the Barnes TTSX, but I’ve loved the Cavity Back Bullets MKZ coppers out of my 6.8spc and 270. Give ‘em a look!

 

[Guy Miner]

Took my first bull elk this year @ 440yds using 165gr AccuBond in 30-06 loaded @ 2950fps. The 180’s are great as well, and I’d use them without hesitation. I can’t speak to the Barnes TTSX, but I’ve loved the Cavity Back Bullets MKZ coppers out of my 6.8spc and 270. Give ‘em a look!

Welcome to the Nosler forum! Congrats on your bull elk. Great shooting at 440 yards, and seems you've got one heck of a load. Several powders can help the ol' 30-06 push a 165 to over 2900 fps.

Regards, Guy

 

[diverdown]

I’d not fret a 7-08 and a good bullet myself. At least to 400 and likely a bit further with the right bullet. I opt for more but no way I’d sit home with a good 7-08 and a quality bullet.

My opinion is if you think a 7-08 is too light you’re condemning a 270 and a slew of other great killers.

Scotty, you're mentioning the right bullet but along with that you're going to need adequate velocity to make that bullet work. That also means you are going to need a lighter bullet to get that velocity at the further distance. The wonder bullets we have now work if their pushed hard enough. I am just not a big fan of light bullets for an animal as big as an elk. If that shot isn't perfect at that long range and say a large bone is struck you may have a tracking job ahead of you. I guess I'm just old school where you should use enough horsepower when things don't go right.

 

[DrMike]

Took my first bull elk this year @ 440yds using 165gr AccuBond in 30-06 loaded @ 2950fps. The 180’s are great as well, and I’d use them without hesitation. I can’t speak to the Barnes TTSX, but I’ve loved the Cavity Back Bullets MKZ coppers out of my 6.8spc and 270. Give ‘em a look!

Congratulations on your elk. The first is always memorable, never to be forgotten. The 30-06 is still an excellent round, and the 165 grain AB was definitely made for the cartridge.

 

[300WSM]

I’d not fret a 7-08 and a good bullet myself. At least to 400 and likely a bit further with the right bullet. I opt for more but no way I’d sit home with a good 7-08 and a quality bullet.

My opinion is if you think a 7-08 is too light you’re condemning a 270 and a slew of other great killers.

Scotty, you're mentioning the right bullet but along with that you're going to need adequate velocity to make that bullet work. That also means you are going to need a lighter bullet to get that velocity at the further distance. The wonder bullets we have now work if their pushed hard enough. I am just not a big fan of light bullets for an animal as big as an elk. If that shot isn't perfect at that long range and say a large bone is struck you may have a tracking job ahead of you. I guess I'm just old school where you should use enough horsepower when things don't go right.

This is such a Jekyll and Hyde ....

The new pretty bullets of today are trying to extract every bit of accuracy from a weapon's caliber....

And while they do....

it's also at the expense of hitting a speed window/minimum to get that good terminal performance.

IMO...
Even with the advanced technology of bullets present day there is still no do all bullet.
No matter what they say you just can't get around thick skinned, dense bone and muscle,
Using a bullet hard enough but hitting with enough speed to ensure the performance of it.

If you're way over the speed minimum then it's all good.
If you're toeing the line of enough speed I'd think twice about it.

We all have our own opinions but for me personally I prefer bigger is better.

In a simulated hunt when all elements are perfect you have a greater success window with a greater choice of cartridge options.

But real world can play tricks on us.
Distance, size of animal, and most important that gets overlooked...angle....

I've seen bullets do some very weird expansions or nary at all when extreme angled shots are taken.

Thus for me....the more gun you have the less all the intangibles can impact your terminal performance.

The less gun you have the more the circumstances can affect your performance or rather the more perfect everything needs to be....
Which, in the real world, perfect doesn't happen as much as we'd like

***
Note
***
When I say real world or simulated I'm talking about hunting abroad versus a paid hunt (simulated)

These are hugely two different things.

 

[Bearclaw]

Congratulations on your elk. The first is always memorable, never to be forgotten. The 30-06 is still an excellent round, and the 165 grain AB was definitely made for the cartridge.

Thank you! It was an incredible experience. I had practiced at 300 quite a bit, but had no intention of taking a shot that long. The 165 AccuBond really did its job, even with an abbreviated load work up. They just shoot, it seems. If not for being public land, and the elk I was stalking being jumped by another random hunter, I’d have had a much easier ~200yd shot. All’s well that ends well I suppose, and I learned a lot! Most in the days preceding the shot. I’ll continue using the 30-06 for a while, as I just can’t see a need for much else, for now. Handloading has taught me so much about ballistics, bullet construction, shooting fundamentals, etc. A lot can be done with these old faithful calibers, and the nostalgia of using the hand me down guns, etc. is priceless.

 

[Bearclaw]

Welcome to the Nosler forum! Congrats on your bull elk. Great shooting at 440 yards, and seems you've got one heck of a load. Several powders can help the ol' 30-06 push a 165 to over 2900 fps.

Regards, Guy

Thanks, happy to be here. Seems like a great place with tons of experience and knowledge I hope to learn from. I was incredibly happy to have the opportunity and the rifle/bullet did a stellar job! I stalked a bull to 225yds earlier in the week, watched his cows graze for an hour, but he never stepped out of the brush. Alas, 440 was a much longer shot than I’d have chosen, but i was confident due to the amount of range time I’d put in. Heck of an experience!