Reloading Help 25-06

[Ralt71]

Welcome to the forum.
As suggested, IMR4350 or IMR4831 should get you the desired results with a 100 gr bullet. Maybe show the results to your FIL and then tell him you switched to a powder with the appropriate burn rate.
As for the 6.5 PRC with AB's, they like some jump. Start at .050" off the lands and seat deeper in .005" increments until you get your desired results.

JD338

Thank you! I've been reading a lot, some threads answered questions for me without ever posting. The data Dr Mike puts up was helpful for me. Especially seeing some pressure data he has.

Thanks for the snippet on the 6.5. I am going to try further off the lands in both guns for sure. The PRC gets sub moa, but there are times I can take that ol girl out and shoot a string of 3 that all are touching. other times I'm right up against the 1 moa mark with the exact same load and similar ambient conditions. It has me dumb founded. Same thing with pressure signs on that gun. I may run some more test and do a thread on it.

 

[Ralt71]

I was going to type out a response but Jorey’s was spot on. I’m another user of slow powders in the 25-06, H1000, 7828, rl25 and 26, Retumbo.

I wouldn’t sweat the numbers either myself. Look for good consistent accurate loads and the numbers will fall in place. Also, with H1000 I seem to have better luck towards top end loads rather than lower nodes since it will likely have better case fill and ignition properties.

Which user is Jorey?
I agree the numbers aren't really a factor at close ranges. I use them to double check my handload more than anything. I've been taught that bad ES = combustion. Powder, Amount of powder, Primer, Neck Tension.. That's what I go to when those numbers are off. Which I have done here aside from swapping powders.

 

[Ralt71]

I would work up at 0.5gr versus 0.002gr until I start see pressure at 0.020” off.
Others have givens sound advice.

Thanks. I was almost a full grain over max with no pressure signs what so ever on a fairly warm day for us. I stopped there. I will say my speeds, even this much above max, were still slower than factory but i really felt like I was pushing it way too much.

 

[Ralt71]

but it's as much down to brass prep (to increase life of brass) & bullet seating as the nut behind the butt.
Brass should be F/L re-sized to fired case headspace not more! I do this and am using an RCBS F/L die, shoulder bump .002, I upped a string of six to .003 and another string of 6 to .004 with no change in POI I always F/L re-size same here. Don't worry about the chrono numbers as long as accuracy is there. Only MV is relevant to guage bullet drop over different ranges.
There isn't a magic formula relevant for all rifles & it does come down to trial & error but there is good advice on here. Good luck I appreciate it. PS, Would love to get a Stag one day! Bucket List for sure

 

[Ralt71]

Welcome. You have been given sound advice on difference in powder, bullets, seating depth and such. The only thing I might add is the obvious of tight screws and mounts. Also make sure your bore is clean and not heavily fouled from bullet jacket. I can get it consistently clean, but I can't get it consistently dirty. That's always been my moto. Any time I'm testing a new combo on a round I clean the heck out of the barrel. I also will clean it every 15 rounds when testing. I shoot a fouling round to ensure it does not mess up my data as well both for the barrel and for barrel temps. This can cause loss of accuracy varying one rifle to another. One other thing, the rifle just might not like that powder. Happens. This may be my reality

Thanks! I lived in Shinnston for a few years, worked out of Clarksburg until i took a promotion that moved me to the Pittsburgh PA area. I'm in Central PA now. Great country out your way, love the fly fishing there.

 

[JD338]

Ralt71,
Jorey is Remman25-06. He has a lot of experience with the 25-06 and extreme long range shooting.
Maybe one of the guys here can run Quick Load for you to find optimum powders for you. I would try H4350 since you have it.
If your FIL is open to changing bullets, switch to the Nosler 115 gr BT and don't look back. This is probably the best bullet out there for the 25-06. I use this bullet in the 257 Roberts and it puts deer down DRT.
FWIW, my Dad was born in Clarksburg.

JD338

 

[Ralt71]

Ralt71,
Jorey is Remman25-06. He has a lot of experience with the 25-06 and extreme long range shooting.
Maybe one of the guys here can run Quick Load for you to find optimum powders for you. I would try H4350 since you have it.
If your FIL is open to changing bullets, switch to the Nosler 115 gr BT and don't look back. This is probably the best bullet out there for the 25-06. I use this bullet in the 257 Roberts and it puts deer down DRT.
FWIW, my Dad was born in Clarksburg.

JD338

Thank you for the detail. I'm going to load some rounds with a seating depth of 35 and 40 here over lunch and send em. If I send it trending in the right way, I'm going ot do a full seat test starting at 35 off.

Clarksburg is a great area. Some very good friends of the family are from that area. They were our neighbors when I was a kid growing up in NE Texas. Who would have ever thought I would end up there in my adult life after all the stories he told us. Even though I was in my early twenties at the time, I had to climb the Jackson statue downtown and sit on the horse with him. Had my wife snap a picture and sent it. Getting down was way worse than getting up there haha

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .25-06 Rem.
Bullet             : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 61.285 grain H2O = 3.979 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder             : Ramshot Hunter

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-10.0   88    51.21   2974    1964   46561  12843     96.9    1.165
-09.0   89    51.78   3007    2007   48110  12979     97.3    1.147
-08.0   90    52.35   3040    2051   49709  13110     97.7    1.130
-07.0   91    52.92   3072    2096   51359  13236     98.1    1.113
-06.0   92    53.49   3105    2140   53063  13356     98.4    1.096
-05.0   93    54.06   3137    2185   54821  13470     98.7    1.080
-04.0   94    54.62   3170    2231   56636  13578     98.9    1.063  ! Near Maximum !
-03.0   95    55.19   3202    2277   58510  13680     99.2    1.048  ! Near Maximum !
-02.0   96    55.76   3234    2323   60445  13777     99.4    1.032  ! Near Maximum !
-01.0   97    56.33   3266    2369   62444  13866     99.6    1.017  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   98    56.90   3298    2415   64508  13949     99.7    1.002  ! Near Maximum !
+01.0   99    57.47   3330    2462   66640  14025     99.8    0.987  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0   99    58.04   3362    2509   68844  14095     99.9    0.973  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0  100    58.61   3393    2557   71121  14157    100.0    0.958  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0  101    59.18   3425    2604   73474  14213    100.0    0.945  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0  102    59.75   3456    2652   75908  14263    100.0    0.931  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 5% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 5% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     98    56.90   3373    2526   70592  13734    100.0    0.963  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 5% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     98    56.90   3208    2286   58463  13978     98.3    1.047  ! Near Maximum !

Cartridge          : .25-06 Rem.
Bullet             : .257, 100, Nosler BalTip 25100
Useable Case Capaci: 61.285 grain H2O = 3.979 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

9 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C              102.3     62.1     4.03    3403   100.0    65000   15166   1.003  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                       103.3     60.9     3.94    3378    99.4    65000   15255   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                 105.1     60.7     3.93    3369    96.9    65000   15475   0.993  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           109.6     60.2     3.90    3360    97.4    65000   15037   0.983  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       103.7     60.2     3.90    3360    97.4    65000   15037   0.983  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    105.2     63.2     4.09    3350    95.5    65000   15446   1.001  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C              105.4     60.2     3.90    3347    98.5    65000   14968   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     108.2     60.5     3.92    3345    98.4    65000   14971   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T            98.1     54.0     3.50    3341   100.0    65000   13736   0.985  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T               109.8     63.7     4.13    3339    97.1    65000   15257   1.012  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T               92.9     55.1     3.57    3337   100.0    65000   13667   0.994  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              110.0     61.8     4.01    3337   100.0    62027   14685   1.011  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           107.3     59.3     3.84    3322   100.0    65000   13556   1.002  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     104.7     64.5     4.18    3321    99.0    65000   14280   0.992  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T               104.2     57.7     3.74    3315   100.0    65000   13846   1.020  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C              102.2     57.8     3.74    3308    98.4    65000   14303   0.993  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      92.4     55.2     3.58    3308    99.4    65000   14053   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        92.4     55.2     3.58    3308    99.4    65000   14053   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      97.8     57.0     3.70    3306    99.7    65000   13968   0.998  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C                        97.4     54.4     3.53    3291   100.0    65000   13474   1.002  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR                         95.0     53.7     3.48    3290   100.0    65000   13484   0.997  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C*T                94.7     54.6     3.54    3289   100.0    65000   13609   1.006  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C                        97.0     56.6     3.67    3286    98.1    65000   13957   0.991  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       96.5     54.5     3.53    3285   100.0    65000   13462   1.019  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                103.3     59.0     3.82    3277    96.5    65000   14002   0.990  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T                   107.5     59.0     3.82    3277    96.5    65000   14002   0.990  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           102.2     55.3     3.58    3270   100.0    65000   13184   1.011  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        90.2     52.1     3.37    3253   100.0    65000   13061   1.006  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             100.6     59.9     3.88    3253    98.2    65000   13531   0.997  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                          97.2     54.3     3.52    3252    99.4    65000   13356   1.008  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350               97.2     54.3     3.52    3252    99.4    65000   13356   1.008  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      105.4     59.5     3.86    3252    99.7    65000   13374   1.024  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 *C                  94.7     54.6     3.54    3250   100.0    65000   12812   1.002  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                100.0     54.6     3.54    3249   100.0    65000   12456   1.002  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C                 107.6     60.1     3.90    3249    98.8    65000   13356   1.002  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T              104.7     57.5     3.73    3244    96.8    65000   13586   0.991  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old                       90.4     51.6     3.35    3240   100.0    65000   12577   1.017  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C                     110.0     62.1     4.03    3240    96.4    57004   15073   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        92.1     52.8     3.42    3236    99.0    65000   13142   1.000  ! Near Maximum !

 

[DrMike]

Cartridge          : .25-06 Rem.
Bullet             : .257, 117, Sierra SPBT 1630
Useable Case Capaci: 61.602 grain H2O = 4.000 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.250 inch = 82.55 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 65000 psi, or 448 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

19 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 *C                 110.0     65.9     4.27    3215    95.5    64493   17197   1.060  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N568 *C*T               109.7     65.0     4.21    3189    97.6    65000   16402   1.062  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-26 *C               98.2     59.9     3.88    3183   100.0    65000   15145   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 *C              107.2     60.6     3.93    3170   100.0    65000   14751   1.056  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 *C                     109.4     62.1     4.03    3169    99.1    65000   15763   1.069  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C                        99.3     58.9     3.81    3168    99.9    65000   15345   1.065  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C                 101.2     58.7     3.81    3168    98.4    65000   15767   1.058  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       100.0     58.3     3.78    3162    98.8    65000   15312   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           105.7     58.3     3.78    3162    98.8    65000   15312   1.047  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    101.4     61.2     3.97    3155    97.3    65000   15834   1.066  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C              101.5     58.3     3.78    3143    99.5    65000   15153   1.063  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     104.2     58.5     3.79    3142    99.4    65000   15168   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N565 *C*T               105.8     61.7     4.00    3142    98.6    65000   15558   1.078  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 *C              110.0     67.8     4.39    3134    95.0    60589   16678   1.093  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 *T                   110.0     61.8     4.00    3132    98.9    64447   14889   1.048  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     101.1     62.5     4.05    3122    99.8    65000   14466   1.060  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T            94.3     52.1     3.38    3118   100.0    65000   13667   1.052  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C               98.6     56.0     3.63    3107    99.4    65000   14488   1.057  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T           103.1     57.3     3.71    3101   100.0    65000   13547   1.070  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N555 *C*T               100.1     55.7     3.61    3098   100.0    65000   13795   1.087  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      94.2     55.2     3.58    3097   100.0    65000   13986   1.064  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                   92.6     55.1     3.57    3093   100.0    65000   13739   1.077  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C                        93.7     54.9     3.56    3087    99.3    65000   14150   1.056  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 *T                   103.8     57.3     3.71    3084    98.1    65000   14314   1.054  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC *T                 99.8     57.3     3.71    3084    98.1    65000   14314   1.054  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR                         91.5     52.0     3.37    3078   100.0    65000   13436   1.062  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C                        93.8     52.7     3.41    3077   100.0    65000   13428   1.068  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C*T                91.2     52.9     3.43    3077   100.0    65000   13571   1.071  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       92.8     52.7     3.42    3070   100.0    65000   13396   1.085  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780              97.2     58.2     3.77    3058    99.3    65000   13755   1.062  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            98.4     53.5     3.47    3057   100.0    65000   13142   1.076  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot LRT                        110.0     67.4     4.36    3055    87.9    59713   15790   1.091  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron *C*T              101.3     55.9     3.63    3053    98.3    65000   13883   1.054  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 *C                 103.9     58.4     3.78    3052    99.7    65000   13525   1.067  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      101.6     57.7     3.74    3049   100.0    65000   13409   1.091  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071                         107.4     57.7     3.74    3049   100.0    65000   13409   1.091  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World SW4350               93.8     52.7     3.41    3049   100.0    65000   13411   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                          93.8     52.7     3.41    3049   100.0    65000   13411   1.072  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 *C                  91.2     52.9     3.43    3040   100.0    65000   12776   1.067  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 96.2     52.9     3.43    3033   100.0    65000   12425   1.069  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World BMG                 109.6     67.0     4.34    3028    90.3    65000   14214   1.065  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D100                         109.6     67.0     4.34    3028    90.3    65000   14214   1.065  ! Near Maximum !
Shooters World Long Rifle           92.8     51.6     3.34    3026   100.0    65000   12903   1.070  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                          92.8     51.6     3.34    3026   100.0    65000   12903   1.070  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 *C                110.0     66.5     4.31    3016    87.9    60014   14929   1.090  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7977 Enduron *C*T              105.6     59.3     3.84    2991    91.9    65000   13395   1.056  ! Near Maximum !

 

[Ralt71]

Thank you very much for sharing this data with me!

 

[clearwater]

How far off the lands do you set your loads up?

My OAL is 3.29"

However, if the factory load is working and using that bullet, I would use factory OAL, brass, and try to replicate that load.