Reloading plan and questions

[iXanadu]

Hi guys,

Brand new to the board, and brand new to reloading rifle rounds. Can you please review my objective and plan and let me know if I'm on the right track please? I know folks prefer terse to verbose, so I'll try to keep it short.

Objective: Develop two similar rounds, one for hunting and accuracy, one for target, cost and accuracy. If possible I'll shape the development of the target round to fly as close to the hunting round as possible. I was inspired by a few rounds developed using the NOS54987, especially Rovert's of this forum (I can't find the link now, but very impressive).

Powder: H4831SC
Brass: Once fired (my gun) Winchester Super X Powerpoint
Gun: Browing X-Bolt chambered in .270 cal

Proposed Hunting projectile:
Nosler AccuBond (NOS54987) 130gr
Target Cost is looking like 1.01 after shipping/tax. . .

Proposed Target projectile:
Winchester (WB270PP130) power-point 130 gr
Target Cost is looking like: .69 after shipping/tax . . .

Neck sizing only to keep round shaped to my chamber, and to extend reloading life.

Questions:

1) Is there a better bullet than the Winchester PP for my purpose (target use, low cost, ability match the AccuBond's flight)?

2) I can't find any load data for the WB270PP130. Can I develop in tandem with the NOS54987? (start with same powder weight, and graduate up/down based on performance and signs?)

3) Costs assume I can reload a Winchester power point brass approximately 10 times. Rather than buy empty brass and having to fire them once to shape to my chamber, I've bought 20 boxes of power point and will target shoot with them and recycle the brass. Is it reasonable to expect 10 hand-loads of Winchester brass if I only neck size them?

4) I have not acquired primers yet - I was thinking CCI. Any recommendations?

I have other questions about case prep (before or after tumbling...) but I'll hit the books a few more times before posting those in a separate thread.

Thanks for the help. Been lurking a while, and have researched the board, and can find great info on the Nosler bullet, but I don't see much on the Winchester or specifically my objective of developing a practice round to mimic the hunting round.

 

[DrMike]

Welcome aboard. Since you've already spent some time looking at the contributors posting here, you have some idea of what you will find. First, congratulations on taking up the art of hand loading. You have thought through your goals and aims. I don't doubt that you will be able to work up two similar loads, though there are no guarantees that they will be sufficiently similar to permit you to pursue your stated objectives. I question whether you'll actually be able to save money through hand loading. My reason for this particular negativity is that hand loading is addictive; it leads to more shooting rather than less shooting. Therefore, it will entail expenditures out of proportion to what has been expended previously. On the other hand, you will become more proficient in the art and science of riflery.

To answer your queries more specifically. The Winchester Power Point is assuredly a cheaper round. I don't know that it is necessarily any better, or any worse, than other projectiles you may be able to secure. I've used many of them in years past, and all permitted me to cut costs somewhat. What these cheaper bullets did do is permit me to refine my loading techniques to avoid extensive experimentation when using more finely crafted bullets.

Winchester used to put out loading data for their bullets. I suppose it is possible to contact them, requesting data. Generally, manufacturers of components are generous with their data. Alternative, you might consider investing in the QuickLoad program, which is worth every penny of investment once the program is mastered.

You should get ten loadings with your brass without difficulty. I do make it a point to use only virgin brass or brass that has been fired no more than two times for my hunting rounds. The last thing I need is a round that chambers hard just as a trophy elk hoves into view. I do track my brass to ensure that I am firing the same lot on any test, and that it has the identical number of loadings.

CCI primers will work just fine for your projects. Candidly, I do not find any of the commonly available primers to create difficulties in hand loading. Just be certain to work up your load from a safe minimum, as brisance differs between the variously manufactured primers. It is a good practise to drop back 5% of so in charge whenever you change any component and work up to ensure that your load is safe.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. The more specific, the greater the likelihood that someone will have a specific response to meet your requirement.

Again, welcome aboard.

 

[Sas874runner]

Welcome ixanadu. I really enjoy loading for the 270 win. For this cartridge I target and Varmint shoot with my normal hunting Load. Thanks to sps my cost to shoot this Load is small. H4831sc wlr primers and 140 AB's. Shoots tiny groups all day long. I like to do case prep after cleaning and tumbling. As for primers I like to go with primers on the hotter side due to Colorado can get down right cold. (-5 F at 7:00 am this morning) winchester seems to have very hot large rifle primers. Alot of times I will also load mag primers in standard cases. Depending on the powder.

 

[PJGunner]

Neck sizing only to keep round shaped to my chamber, and to extend reloading life.

A: Only works up to a point. eventually you will have to do a full length resize as the brass will be too tight. I don't bother neck sizing anymore. I just set my FL die to just enough for easy chambering without over working the brass. You choice though.

Questions:

1) Is there a better bullet than the Winchester PP for my purpose (target use, low cost, ability match the AccuBond's flight)?

A: They should work OK for targets. If you want the closest to the AccuBond, the Ballistic Tip would be my choice but would be a more costly option. Also will/might require changing sight settings when switching from one bllet to the other.

2) I can't find any load data for the WB270PP130. Can I develop in tandem with the NOS54987? (start with same powder weight, and graduate up/down based on performance and signs?)

A: Use the starting load for your powder of choice and work up to the max load for your rifle. Do this for each bullet even if they are the same weight. The top load for each bullet may be slightly different.

3) Costs assume I can reload a Winchester power point brass approximately 10 times. Rather than buy empty brass and having to fire them once to shape to my chamber, I've bought 20 boxes of power point and will target shoot with them and recycle the brass. Is it reasonable to expect 10 hand-loads of Winchester brass if I only neck size them?

A: Probably would have been cheaper to just buy the components, work up the loads and save a few bucks. When I bought my last .270, I bought one box of factory ammo and a supply of new factory brass. I used the box of factory for basic sighting in and to take case head and pressure ring measurements. Regardles of you load level, you will have to full length resize at some time during the time you're using that brass. The brass will continue to expand at each firing until it becomes too tight to easily enter the chamber at which time you will have to do a full length resize. This will depend to some degree on just how hot you plan to load but figure on doing it after the fifth reload and possibly sooner if loading to top pressures. It's just the nature of the beast. Another factor though is how tight do your primer pockets stay. the hotter you load the sooner thy become too loose for safety.
Another point, I don't use neck sized brass in my hunting loads. You want hunting ammo to slide into the chamber just as slickly as possible.

4) I have not acquired primers yet - I was thinking CCI. Any recommendations?

A: The CCI's should work just fine Personally I use Winchester WLR's in my .270, well in all my rifle cartriddges. These days, you use whatever you can find. I have used the CCI, both standard and magnum and I feel they're just as good as any.

On setting up your resizing die I set mine up so it sizes the brass in a custom fit. Brass lasts just as long as when I neck sized it and just eliminates the worry of, "Will this last neck sizing session leave the brass too tight?" Especially important in my opinion if using the load on a hunt.

This is how I set up my sizing die for bottleneck cartridges.

1. Take a once fired factory round and blacken the neck and shoulders with a Magic Marker or Sharpee pen. Some people like to smoke the neck and shoulder, but I find the Magic Marker/Sharpee pen a bit better.

2. Carefully lubricate the case.

3. Loosen the lock ring on the sizing die and back off about two turns from when the die is set to touch the shell holder.

4. Size the case. Note where the marks are on the case and turn the die down about a half a turn and size again. Turn down some more, and resize again. What you are looking for is the marks on the blackening just touching the shoulder.

5. Clean the lube from the case and try it in the rifle. It may chamber just a bit on the snug side. If so, turn the die down ever so slightly, lube and size again. Wipe off the lube and try in the rifle. If it slides in as easily as a factory round, you should be good to go. If not, usually one more very slight adjustment should fix the problem.

6. Tighten the locking ring for the die and you're done. You have just set your sizing die up for a custom fit to your specific rifle, rather than a generic one size fits all guns.

Paul B.

 

[iXanadu]

DrMike:

Good point about saving money. It is not so much I want to save on my annual budget (as if I had one LOL) but I want to be able to send hundreds (or maybe thousands) of rounds down the range to advance my effective range from 100 to 200, and progressively 300+ yards. Retail AccuBond or similar rounds are cost prohibitive to that goal. Even with my AccuBond reloads at a buck a piece I'll be stingy. But .70 a piece for the Winchester (or similar), I'm sure to pull the trigger 300-500 times a year which can only help me learn proper technique and extend my effective range. I'll look into the Quick load program.

Sas874runner: Thanks for the tips on case prep. I read a thread here, about someone getting a 30% group improvement when they de-burred and and cleaned out primer pockets well (something I don't do with 9mm pistol rounds). I just have to research what order to do this, before or after I neck size (and punch out the primer). Seems like it would "have" to be after because you can't clean/debur a primer pocket until the primer is out. Maybe I'll have to setup a single station deprimer (without any case shapping).

 

[SJB358]

I can't add too much to what the other fella's have stated, but if your stateside, buying bullets from the Shooter's Pro Shop should almost eliminate the need to shoot two different bullets. You can buy them cheap enough to use the same bullet for everything.

If you want cheaper, then the 130 BT would be my choice. Nearly the same BC and you could likely develop an easy load that shoots very close to your hunting load, only requiring the little'est amount of zero change before you start hunting.

I Partial full length size everything from 243 to 35 Newton, 10 firings from even full pressure loads should be very easy.

Again, welcome aboard. Good luck saving money at this though.... I have been trying to break even for 20+ years now..

 

[iXanadu]

PJGunner,

Thank you for a very through answer. Good point on periodic full case resizing. I don't expect to be reloading my hunting rounds often. Once worked up, they will be probably be loaded into 1st or 2nd generation brass. Once I have a load worked up, I'll load 20-40 rounds and that should ideally last me several hunting seasons.

I'm using the Lee Classic Turrent system. My initial plan (still researching) is to load the 4 spots as follows.

Reference: http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/ ... 3-die-set/
and http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/ ... crimp-die/

1) Full case resize/de-priming die.
2) Neck resize/de-priming die.
3) Bullet Seater
4) Factory Crimp die.

I think I'm going to end up picking up a single station press and installing a de-priming die (no re-sizing).

Having the full-length sizing die will allow me to build loads for my son's gun out of my used brass on occasion, or when a full-length is called for.

 

[iXanadu]

I can't add too much to what the other fella's have stated, but if your stateside, buying bullets from the Shooter's Pro Shop should almost eliminate the need to shoot two different bullets. You can buy them cheap enough to use the same bullet for everything.

If you want cheaper, then the 130 BT would be my choice. Nearly the same BC and you could likely develop an easy load that shoots very close to your hunting load, only requiring the little'est amount of zero change before you start hunting.

Thanks. The SPS stuff all says "blemished". I don't care about cosmetic issues, but do these fly as true as stuff that made the cull?

What is the 130 BT?

 

[BK]

First I gotta ask, what are you hunting? Personally, I prefer to have one load per rifle. If you aren't hunting anything bigger than deer or hogs, I'd just find Ballistic Tips (the 130BT mentioned earlier) in whatever weight you want and stock up on them. And for elk hunting, unless you are going for trophy bulls, BTs should work as well. If going after big bulls, bullet cost will be nothing compared to the cost of everything else.

And the SPS seconds I have used have been the equal of firsts accuracy wise.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Here's some targets with seconds.

280AI with 175ABLR and 7X57 with 150 PT.

If there is much of a difference between first run and factory blems I'd like to see it.

 

[Sas874runner]

Sps very obviously states that their blems are only cosmetic. I have no problem loading the for hunting. As the blem in the bullet most of the time is so miniscule that you can't see it. Just recently I purchased 140 ABs from sps. 50 ct for around 14 bucks.ll less than half price. As drmike as recently stated save up and watch sps. Anticipate your shooting needs for say a year and when a component becomes available through sps. Buy it up.

 

[RiverRider]

I'll second (or third? fourth?) the idea of the BT for your target shooting. Not only is the BT a very accurate bullet, but if you run out of Accubonds then you can certainly make do with the BTs. And do not worry about the quality of bullets from SPS! I've bought a ton of them and I've never been able to detect any functional shortcoming, and in fact most often I can't even see a cosmetic blemish. Some of the bullets sold at SPS are just over-runs, and they're first quality.

I'll say I think you've picked the best powder around for the .270, all things considered. As for primers, I don't believe you can make a mistake other than buying in insufficient quantity to duplicate a successful load when your chosen brand suddenly becomes unavailable (we didn't use to have to say such things and I miss the old days). Winchester, CCI, Federal, Remington...they're all good.

If your concerned about case life, and you certainly seem to be, taker a look at what it takes to anneal case necks. It's a bit of work but I think it's worth the effort, and especially considering the tenuous nature of the reloading supply chain.

 

[iXanadu]

First I gotta ask, what are you hunting? Personally, I prefer to have one load per rifle. . . .

I'm hunting Virginia White Tails. Plenty have been harvested with low price retail rounds so I'm sure the BT's will work fine. It didn't occur to me to run AB's and BT's in the same way as I intended on running AB's and PP's but it makes perfect sense. I'm glad I asked and everyone has chimed in.

Regarding the SPS "blemished rounds".

nvbroncrider: Very impressive.

Sps very obviously states that their blems are only cosmetic. I have no problem loading the for hunting. As the blem in the bullet most of the time is so miniscule that you can't see it.

You are right. Before a couple hours ago I never heard of SPS, and frankly didn't trust their assurance. A consensus on a board like this I do trust.

RiverRider: Another vote for SPS. Now' I'm disappointed they only have 1 box in stock. I'll take everyone's input to heart and load up on bullets when they come in stock.

I did a preliminary search for BT's and I'm not finding any in stock anywhere. Smart hunters/reloaders figured out way before me that they make sense apparently. I'll keep looking.

PV has AB's in stock, so I'll probably bite the bullet and get 100-200 of those for now. I'll spend a few hours looking for the BT's and if I can find them, make that my target/backup round. I've read that it has virtually the same POI as the AB's which would suite my needs perfectly. If I get in the woods and use the, might just be my single go-to load.

Thanks to all for the help. I welcome any and all input. Part of my measure twice, cut once approach.

 

[sask boy]

Welcome ixanadu, I think you have picked the right forum. The people here are not only very knowledgeable but are genuinely nice :wink:.
H4831sc is a very good powder but don't be afraid of IMR4350 or RL-22 they are not far behind.
I am a 270win guy as well & have .5 or better MOA when I am on.
In my opinion 130gr. in the perfect bullet weight for the 270win. I know that AccuBond is my go to bullet & .5 is not bad for any application :mrgreen:.

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Dr. Vette]

Once I have a load worked up, I'll load 20-40 rounds and that should ideally last me several hunting seasons.

Yeah, I used to think that too. :mrgreen:

Then you find out that shooting is a lot of fun, or you go on a hunt and have to sight in, or your Dad drops his rifle and goes thru 2 boxes trying to sight in, or you want to see if the rifle is still sighted in this year, or... you get the picture. Load up 100 and I'll start to believe you. :wink:

I'm using the Lee Classic Turrent system. My initial plan (still researching) is to load the 4 spots as follows.

1) Full case resize/de-priming die.
2) Neck resize/de-priming die.
3) Bullet Seater
4) Factory Crimp die.

I think I'm going to end up picking up a single station press and installing a de-priming die (no re-sizing).

Having the full-length sizing die will allow me to build loads for my son's gun out of my used brass on occasion, or when a full-length is called for.

The only reason for a crimping die is if you have a semi-auto or a lever action. I have yet to see a need for it in a bolt action rifle.

If you're going with Lee dies to start, get a collet die for your neck sizing. Perhaps that's what you already mean in # 2) above. The Lee Deluxe set usually gets you everything you need to start reloading including the collet die.

I would also checking with SPS weekly and look for the Ballistic Tip and the AccuBond bullets you want. It won't take long and you'll probably see them. It's tough enough to develop a load for some rifles, and trying to get 2 to match could be an exercise in futility. The beauty of the AB and the BT is that they're virtually the same, and will likely impact within inches at 200 yards.

 

[iXanadu]

The only reason for a crimping die is if you have a semi-auto or a lever action. I have yet to see a need for it in a bolt action rifle.

If you're going with Lee dies to start, get a collet die for your neck sizing. Perhaps that's what you already mean in # 2) above. The Lee Deluxe set usually gets you everything you need to start reloading including the collet die.

I would also checking with SPS weekly and look for the Ballistic Tip and the AccuBond bullets you want. It won't take long and you'll probably see them. It's tough enough to develop a load for some rifles, and trying to get 2 to match could be an exercise in futility. The beauty of the AB and the BT is that they're virtually the same, and will likely impact within inches at 200 yards.

Thanks for the great tip. I was going to get the deluxe kit (http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/ ... 3-die-set/) and add the factory crimp. Glad to know I don't need the factory crimp. I "think" I'll want a de-priming die that will knock out primers in whatever cartridge without re-sizing - this will leave me room to add it without getting a single stage press.

SPS will be on my weekly check list for sure.

 

[iXanadu]

A big thanks to everyone the chimed in. I now have on order 200 130gr accubonds and 250 130gr ballistic tips (hunting).

I know that a lot of white tails have been killed with BT's, but I've watched so many videos of the 130gr AB at work that I think I just gotta try.

If I can catch AB's on SPS, I'll order a 1000-2000K that that will probably be my single round for this gun.

I still have some research about case prep, and I'll probably start another thread with specific questions. That way this thread can wrap up, or stay more or less on topic.

Again - I really appreciate the help.

 

[BK]

The BTs will be fine, ther ABs will be finer. I doubt a white tail will stress a BT from a .270 much.

 

[Dr. Vette]

If I can catch AB's on SPS, I'll order a 1000-2000K that that will probably be my single round for this gun.

Use whatcha got first, and see what kind of a load you get.
You may find that your rifle doesn't like the Accubonds as much as you'd hoped, and you suddenly have 2000 very small paperweights...

Don't ask how I know this, although I only have a few hundred of similar paperweights. :mrgreen:

 

[hubcap]

Bt, and AB,s are VERY accurate for me. with 60 to 61 grains of H-4831 sc they hit the same spot on the target at 100 yrds. I like that. One of my all time favorite loads is a low cost 130 pro hunter or gameking and some IMR-4350. The sierra 130,s are not designed for elk but they are deadly on deer.