Remington or Savage for a starter long range gun?

[jmad_81]

Ok fellas I need some help on this one. Remingtonman and I went out shooting this last weekend. We set up a range that included three 12" steal plates at 600, 800, and 1100. He was kind enough to let me put three rounds downs his 338 edge, and now I'm hooked on the long range thing.

I'm planning on building an edge someday but I don't know that much about shooting that far and am wanting to practice for a year or two with a different, less expensive rifle. I would like this rifle to be set up for shooting out to 1K. I don't plan of shooting anything but steal plates and maybe a few yotes out that far. It is also going to be my go to song dog gun, for calling and spot and stalk.

I've been doing a lot of reading on the 6mm BR website and I think I have it narrowed down to a .243 winchester. I should be able to push a 95gr. VLD in the 3175-3225 range with a 26" tube. I'm looking at a Remington SPS, or a Savage 12 low profile. Both have 26" tubes. The Savage is stainless laminate while the SPS is black matte plastic stock. If I go the SPS route I'll more than likey Dura Coat it a few different colors just for looks and protection.

So my two questions are; Whitch rifle do you think would be better for this? And is a 1/9.25" twist fast enough to stabalize the 95gr, or 105 gr, VLD bullets?

I have never owned a Savage, and I have heard that Remington has had some trouble turning out quality rifles lately.

Either one is going to wear a Mark 2 mill dot 6-18x40.

 

[jmad_81]

So... I was just checking out the shilen website...they make barrels for savage rifles that are ready to go, they just have to be screwed on! Might have to see if I can find a used savage around and screw a 243AI barrel with a 1:8 twist on it. I'm kind of excited about that!

 

[Richracer1]

Gunbroker......

Savage also sells just their actions...something to think about.

 

[nitis]

I dont know anything about savage but the model 700s are pretty tough to beat when it comes to accessories and aftermarket parts

I know if you look you can find 700 barrels as well.

Also I have never had a bad remington and have had about 10 700s!

 

[buckfever]

I know what you mean Jmad_81 that long range bug bit me pretty hard after I shot a friends F class rifle this summer its alot of fun and I have a Savage and a sa M700 but no money when I do get the money I might go with a .243 IA or .284 I guess I have alot of time to thick it over.

 

[Richracer1]

So... I was just checking out the shilen website...they make barrels for savage rifles that are ready to go, they just have to be screwed on! Might have to see if I can find a used savage around and screw a 243AI barrel with a 1:8 twist on it. I'm kind of excited about that!

Savage probably has the easiest method to switch out or change barrels. Just get the barrel nut wrench, a go-no go guage and your set.

 

[jmad_81]

If I was building a .243 AI so shoot 105 VLDs would a guy be better off with a longer action? Like a 30-06 lenght? The local pawn shop had a 110 30-06 for $289 this morning.

What does a go no-go gage do?

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Jake, the go no go gauge is for headspace.

I think your better off going with the savage long action for a build. It will be cheaper then the remington and shoot just as good if not better (did I say that outloud) with the shilen barrel. With the long action, you'll be able to seat the long 95 and 105g vld bullets out to the lands and still use as a repeater, which is nice for a hunting rifle.

I think you'll be fine with the 1 in 8" for up to the 105g vld and 107g smk.

 

[Desert Fox]

Get the Savage Model 12 FTR chambered for 6.5-284. I heard a lot of good things about it. As you know a Team from the United States recently won the F-Class World Championship in Bisley, England using the factory Savages. For all around cartridge, nothing beats the 6.5-284 IMHO.

 

[Greg Nolan]

Savage has survived all these years by outshooting the BIG GREEN and THE BIG RED. They have it down. :grin:
Greg

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

DF, I like your idea. If I was going to "learn about long range shooting with a cheap rifle" that's where I would start. :wink:

 

[JD338]

DF, I like your idea. If I was going to "learn about long range shooting with a cheap rifle" that's where I would start. :wink:

+1
DF nailed it!

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Savage has survived all these years by outshooting the BIG GREEN and THE BIG RED. They have it down. :grin:
Greg

Been saying it for years now! :wink:

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I have to ask why the 6.5-284 for steel and coyotes?? Dont need that much bullet weight or kick IMO.

I think hes got a great idea in the 243 or 243 AI with 105g vld. The ballistics beat the 6.5-284 w/out the powder consumption and kick, bullets are cheaper, etc...

Barrel life isn't that great on any of them, so thats not a deciding choice on this one.

Hard to beat the 6mm's for a 1K rifle just for steel and coyotes. Cheap to shoot and very accurate, with very good ballistics.

 

[JD338]

Savage has survived all these years by outshooting the BIG GREEN and THE BIG RED. They have it down. :grin:
Greg

Been saying it for years now! :wink:

Savage will build you a custom rifle, just ask Pop.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Yup...Here is my 300 RUM. Shot 200 ab's at 3150 close to .5" and 168 TTSX's at 3400 fps at .7" with minimal work up. YUp that is my name on the bolt!:lol:

 

[Desert Fox]

I have to ask why the 6.5-284 for steel and coyotes?? Dont need that much bullet weight or kick IMO.

I think hes got a great idea in the 243 or 243 AI with 105g vld. The ballistics beat the 6.5-284 w/out the powder consumption and kick, bullets are cheaper, etc...

Barrel life isn't that great on any of them, so thats not a deciding choice on this one.

Hard to beat the 6mm's for a 1K rifle just for steel and coyotes. Cheap to shoot and very accurate, with very good ballistics.

The only 6 MM bullet that can match the ballistic of the 6.5 140 is the 115 grain DTAC or the 115 gain Berger VLD's. Still it lags the 6.5 BC in comparisson. My 6.5 rifle weigh 10 lbs and it kicks like my 223 AI, at least that's how I perceived it. Savage has two chambering for their FTR/F-Class Target rifle. One the 6.5-284 and another is 6 BR. If 6MM is your cup of tea, then 6BR is hard to beat.

 

[buckfever]

The 243 AI shooting a 105 VLD @ 3200 fps would be pretty hard to beat for coyotes and 1k paper punching with cheaper bullets and less powder and if you want to use a 284 case just go with the straght 284 and 180 gr VLDs they work better in the wind then the 6.5 140s. I have a friend going the 284 route.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

THe 6mm w/105g vld at 3100fps is not bad compared to the 6.5 140g vld at 3000fps.

I would say they are pretty gosh dang close really at 1K.

105vld, -244", 1577fps, 580 ft lbs, 69.6" 10 mph wind

140vld, -242", 1671fps, 868 ft lbs, 60.6" 10 mph wind

Sure the 140g has 2" less drop, which is really nothing, the vertical in your loads will do that, and 9" less drift which is only about 4 clicks, again, not really anything to worry about. Yah the 140 hits a bit harder, but coyotes and steel aren't very hard to bring down.

I would say for steel and coyotes, the 6mm is by far the better route to go, again for cost and performance.

If deer were thrown in the mix, well then itd be a no brainer, the 6.5 w/140g would be the choice.

 

[jmad_81]

Sorry fellas, I've been out of town for a while. My little brother graduated the USMC basic this weekend, and I had to go to California.

The reason I'm leaning on the 243 is mostly cost and I have a thing for .243 bullets. Not sure why but, ever since I took my first seven deer with my moms .243 M70 I have loved them.

I might need to clear up a few things, as I might not have been clear enough to start with. I'm not going to be hunting anything larger than yotes at long range with this gun, MAYBE a speed goat if I can ever get a tag. I'm wanting this rifle for dog hunting and long range shooting. The main reason I want something that I can shoot a long ways is so I can learn about long range shooting. I'm not going to be entering any comps. with it. I'm not looking at building a rifle until I know more about long range shooting. I don't see much sence in burning up a custom, or Savage F class barrel to learn on.

I do agree that overall the 6.5-284 is a better long range gun...hands down. But for what I'm wanting to do the .243 will teach, take yotes, and make gong sounds just as good as a 6.5-284, and do it cheaper.

I got my ming made up on the .243, I was just asking for thoughts on the Remington SPS and the Savage 12. I think I'm going to go the savage route if I can find one. Thanks all for your input. I'm sure you'll be getting some more questions from me as I try to learn something new!