Rifle Accuracy "Tuning"

[joelkdouglas]

Hey gents

I'm relatively new to reloading (about a year now). I also have little kids and can only shoot every 3 or 4 weeks, so I thought I'd speed along my experimentation by asking ya'll some questions.

I shoot a Remington 700 BDL, chambered in .30-06, with a 24-inch barrel. Timney trigger (3 pound pull), HS Precision stock, and I typically shoot off a Harris bipod.

I use a Lee press, Lee neck sizing die (unless rounds are difficult to chamber, in which case I full size, and then I can neck size again for 3 or 4 more loadings), and Forster micro bullet seater die. I also commonly use a Lee factory crimp die.

I only have IMR4350 and CCI primers on my bench. I am using Lapua brass. I shoot either 168 grain Nosler Custom Competition bullets or 165 - 180 grain Accubonds.

My group sizes are around 1.5 inches normally, with a load of 57.0 grains of IMR 4350, for both the Accubonds and CCs.

Questions:
1. Should I just call it good and be happy with these groups? I realize there's the potential for shooter error since I just use the bipod, no fixed shooting platform.

2. My overall length I just set to 3.340 inches, measured from the tip of the AccuBond / CC to the base of the case. This likely results in a seating depth difference between the two bullets. My magazine has room to make the cartidges longer, and I have about 0.05 inches left (with the Accubonds anyway) before I get to the lands. Should I try increasing the length of the rounds? Does DECREASING the length of the round ever result in smaller groups?

3. What are your suggestions for tuning with the amount of powder? I have really only tried 57.0 grains because that's what the Nosler guide says was their most accurate load. How do you start this process? Anybody have any experience with a Rem 700, 24 inch barrel, or does every rifle have its own harmonics?

4. What group sizes are you satisfied with?

Thanks gents, in advance, for your help. Sorry for the book.
Joel

 

[6mm Remington]

Joel, there are some really knowlegeable guys on this forum and I bet they will throw you some really good advise here shortly. This is what has worked for me in two 30-06 rifles that I have had. Still have one of them as you should NEVER be without a 30-06! :grin:

1. Changing up seating depth can tighten things up or can make it worse. If you are having two real close together and then one of those in a three shot group making it a 1.5" group, by changing your depth could tighten that up. You just have to experiment both ways since you say you have room in the bore before the bullet contacts the rifling and you also have magazine room.

2. "MY" load for my Ruger #1B is either a 165 gr. Partition or AccuBond. The Partitions are seated at 3.375 and the Accubonds are at 3.410. The Accubonds are a little longer just because of the pointed tip on them. I left the seating die at the Partition setting so the Accubonds even though longer should have the same amount of jump to the lands as the Partitions. It seems to have worked as both shoot really well with my load.

3. I use IMR4350 and load 57.4 grs with a Federal 210 Large Rifle Primer. Nothing wrong at all with CCI and I used to use those a lot. My gunsmith got me to change as he said Federal's are better, but they both worked equally well for me. There are lots of guys loading either IMR4350 or H4350 in the 30-06 with the 165 & 180 gr. bullets. With the 165's anyway, the loads where guys are having great accuracy without any pressure problems seem to run between 55.5 to 58.5 grs. You just have to check for pressure signs in your rifle as you play with your loads. A chronograph is an excellent tool to help you see what is going on with your powder changes (velocity increases or not, and how much), and it helps tell you if the load you are using is real consistant and doesn't have extreme differences between high & low velocities. Usually, but NOT ALWAYS, the less flucuation you have in your loads with them being very consistant, they will likely also be more accurate. As I said though, not always. Each rifle is a different cat, even the exact same make and model.

4. Nothing wrong with shooting off a Harris bi-pod. I do a lot of load work off one as I like to use them hunting. They are and can be a great tool. You did not mention if you use a sand bag at the rear or not, but that in addition to the bi-pod will make it a lot steadier for you whether prone or from a bench.

5. If I do my part, I like all of my rifles to group in the 1/2-3/4 inch 3-shot 100 yard group range. Nothing wrong with a good solid inch group especially if it's consistant! I think with just a little playing you can get it down to an inch or even less. Good luck and I hope this helps. Others here will chime in and add to what I've said. Everyone here on this site is great to work with, and welcome aboard!
David

 

[velvetant]

Questions:
1. Should I just call it good and be happy with these groups? I realize there's the potential for shooter error since I just use the bipod, no fixed shooting platform.
Put a towel between your bench and Bipod to help eliminate bipod chatter as the gun recoils,
2. My overall length I just set to 3.340 inches, measured from the tip of the AccuBond / CC to the base of the case. This likely results in a seating depth difference between the two bullets. My magazine has room to make the cartidges longer, and I have about 0.05 inches left (with the Accubonds anyway) before I get to the lands. Should I try increasing the length of the rounds? Does DECREASING the length of the round ever result in smaller groups? Start .015 off the lands and work back, I have a few rifles that shoot best at least .075 off the lands
3. What are your suggestions for tuning with the amount of powder? I have really only tried 57.0 grains because that's what the Nosler guide says was their most accurate load. How do you start this process? Anybody have any experience with a Rem 700, 24 inch barrel, or does every rifle have its own harmonics?
Every rifle is different. Try playing with .5 grain increments. I start low and work up, load 3 rounds of each up to book max and watch for pressure sighn as you work up. A sticky bolt lift is a sign you have gone to far
4. What group sizes are you satisfied with? for hunting 1.5" will get the job done but I try to get under an inch

 

[DrMike]

First, welcome to the forum. Glad you posted a very good challenge for many of us. Many of us older cranks were forced to shoot a lot less when our children were younger. Consequently, we learned to maximise opportunities to shoot. You have a decent rifle, and if you are getting 1.5 inch groups off a Harris bipod, you aren't doing badly. It sounds as if you have the rifle tricked out. When you get a chance, post a picture of what you have.

Now, some questions for you. Are you shooting solely for groups? Or are you planning on doing some hunting? The Custom Competition can be very accurate for punching paper, but it is not for hunting. The AccuBond can be quite accurate, and it is an excellent hunting bullet. IMR 4350 is an excellent powder for the .30-06, and Lapua brass is superb. CCI primers are good primers. I assume you are using CCI200 primers?

Most modern rifles can be made to shoot very accurately. Our expectations are often less than the rifle is capable of giving. I would venture that a higher degree of accuracy is possible. Many times, allowing for a longer jump to the lands will improve accuracy. In some instances, I've found that even so massive a jump as 0.25 inches brings the accuracy sought. More commonly, with bullets having a longer bearing surface, 0.100 inches is a sweet point.

 

[6mm Remington]

See Joel, they jumped all over this as I knew they would, and each had good solid ideas to suggest! :wink:

 

[joelkdouglas]

Thanks all, for your suggestions so far. It's very interesting to hear that 3.340 inches isn't so much a "max overall length" as the reloading books indicate. And I will for sure throw a towel in my range bag for the bipod. And 1/2 inch is a good goal to set, I think.

Dr. Mike--yes, it's primarily a hunting gun. I don't even like the taste of beef anymore, compared to deer and elk. However, it's the only rifle I have other than a 50 cal muzzleloader, so it's also my range gun. I keep thinking I'll buy another, chambered in .223 or .22-250 or some such, but my wife is frugal and I can't find anything the .30-06 can't do. And yes, they're CCI 200 LR primers.

I have a trip to the range scheduled for Wednesday this week, as I'm moving to Barksdale AFB from Nellis AFB in two weeks and I'm not even cleared to go in my office after Monday. I have 50 rounds of 57.0 grain, 3.340 inch, 168 grain custom competitions loaded already, and I have 50 more empty cartridges that I could load up and take along.

Do ya'll think I should load the other 50 like so:
57.5 x 10
56.5 x 10
56.0 x 10
55.5 x 10
55.0 x 10
That would give me 3 x 3 x 4 to pick the best 3-shot group from.

Or do you think I should load the other 50 like so:
57.5 x 5 at 3.340 inches OAL
57.5 x 5 at 3.350 inches OAL
57.0 x 5 at 3.340 inches OAL (already loaded)
57.0 x 5 at 3.350 inches OAL
etc.

As in, should I play with powder only, or powder and OAL at the same time?

I'll keep the target sheets and take some pictures when I get home and post them up for your opinions. And I'll throw in a picture of my rifle.

Thanks again gents.

 

[SJB358]

Joel, I would start at your current load and work up to max in your rifle. Since it is your hunting rifle anything extra than what your getting would be gravy. I would load those in .5 gr increments. I would load 6 of each, if you have the time. That way if you get a great 3 shot group you can verify the load before you leave the range. If you tighten up your groups, then you can begin tweaking. I would bet once you find the most accurate powder charge a few changes in seating depth will have you in the 1" region very quickly. Also, try to make EVERYTHING the same. Also, Not sure how many primers you have or are open to try something else, but CCI BR2's are very good to me.

Excellent first post buddy! This really drew the smart guys out (not me) and got you some excellent places to start. Scotty

 

[velvetant]

only change one thing at a time.
play with powder charge weight or seating depth, not both at the same time.

Randy

 

[257 Ackley]

From one Joel to another, Welcome...though I don't load for the 30-06, the there are similarities that you can draw from any caliber. You already have advice on seating depths that is spot-on. Primers can make a difference, especially going to a match primer such as the CCIBR or Ferdral Match primers. for the heavier bullets in this caliber you may find a slower burning powder than 4350 will help as well.

Depending on what you want to do with the rifle (sounds like you hunt), find dependable hunting bullets that shoot well in the rifle and work up your loads with those.

BTW...even though the '06 covers lots of applications well, you need more rifles... :mrgreen:

 

[HeathSexton]

I load 180's in both my 30/06's over H4831. Each have a different OAL but my load is as follows:

WW Brass
CCI 200
180 NBT
59.0grs - H4831
.005" off the lands

One runs around .5" - Savage 116 - and the other is hovering .75ish" - Ruger 77 MkII - for 3 shots at 100yds. I have only chrono'd from one rifle, a Savage 116 with 22" barrel, 2737fps and very tight spreads. This load shoot well at a distance also.

 

[DrMike]

For what it is worth, when I'm looking for an optimum load, I allow at least 2% differential in charge weight. Until you hit the plateau, velocities won't change much. Thus, in a standard rifle cartridge, one to 1.5 grain increments will tell you a great deal about accuracy potential. When I find a load with a good standard deviation, I'll fine tune the load by changing either charge weight or seating depth. Randy is spot on in advising you to change only one parameter at a time. When you try to do too much, you learn nothing because you can't say precisely what is changed.

 

[joelkdouglas]

Thanks for more suggestions, all. I won't mess with my bullet seater this week.

I definitely agree that I need more rifles.

What do I do if I get to the max load for the rifle and I have rounds loaded with more powder than the max load? Up to know my bullet unloader, if you will, has been my rifle. Is the benefit of knowing the max load the ability to load bullets at higher velocities?

Dr Mike--very interesting 2% rule you suggest. Does that mean you wouldn't load in 0.5 grain increments?

Thanks again.

 

[DrMike]

Because I carry so many rifles at a time when I go to the range, I don't have time to fine tune on the first outing. One of the sets will stand out and recommend itself in most instances if a powder/primer/bullet combination is going to work. Note the Nosler Reloading Guide gives three powder charges, a minimum, a mid-range and a maximum. Note that one of those is marked as the most accurate. Why reinvent the wheel? If one of the charges stands out, then I'll go looking for accuracy, knowing where to look.

You do need an eraser (bullet puller). Whether a kinetic puller or a collet style is immaterial, but eventually each of us will make a mistake and need to recover components. Even when a load has been pressure tested and published, there is no guarantee that it will be safe in your rifle. This is one major reason we work up loads--to ensure safety.

Oh, and find a way to get more rifles.

 

[SJB358]

Yep, the bullet puller is a great tool! Really saves money by not blasting away bullets and powder needlessly.

I think since you are hunting with the rifle, any extra speed your rifle can give you nets more ft lbs on target and somewhat flatter trajectory. A chronograph would be my next purchase before another rifle. I wouldn't know what to do without mine. Love it.

Good luck on your next outing. I think if you stick to what you are doing, and raise your charge incrementally, while do all the same things, you will start seeing some of what your rifle is capable of. Scotty

 

[joelkdouglas]

Thanks all. I'll play around with some different powder charges and post my results on Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[SJB358]

Looking forward to seeing your results. Hope you hit something you like. That is part of the fun! Scotty

 

[HeathSexton]

You need to convince your wife that that while the 30/06 is near perfect and everyone should own at least one, that there are lots of things they will not do well.

I will make a list of things neither of 30/06's are really good at:

Shooting .224" bullets - very inaccurate
Shooting .264" bullets - very inaccurate
Shooting .338" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?
Shooting .358" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?
Shooting .458" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?

Accuracy and safety are important so you need to show her that other calibers are inorder.

 

[SJB358]

Good point Heath. I would tell my wife what you said, but I think the beatings on the noggin would hurt my shooting even more! Scotty

 

[DrMike]

I will make a list of things neither of 30/06's are really good at:

Shooting .224" bullets - very inaccurate
Shooting .264" bullets - very inaccurate
Shooting .338" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?
Shooting .358" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?
Shooting .458" bullets - difficult to chamber, high pressure?

Such helpful suggestions! I'm positively overwhelmed! Heath, I couldn't have imagined such compassion out of a boy from the Tennessee hills?

 

[HeathSexton]

No problem Mike, you guys have been SUPER helpful to me. New 300WSM in the stable, new 700 Ti on the way in a few days. Us Southererns may not be good for much, but we know how to trick, errr, convince our wives we need more guns.




Do what I do, ask forgiveness never permission.


This is what is fixin' to happen at the Sexton house hold.

Heath's wife says, "is there a reason that we are missing $800?!"

Heath says, "I'm so sorry, here's the deal, and it was a a deal I just couldn't pass up, I am so sorry, I have never seen one of these before and they are usually much more than this."


If permission was asked here is the way it unfolds:

Heath says, " hey guess what I found today, it's a nice rif...."

Wife says, "JUDY CHOP, JUDY CHOP, SPINNING HAMMER FIST, JUDY CHOP."

"uhhhh, bleeding, pain, loosing consciousness........"


It's forgiveness fellas.