RUSSIA

[Vince]

Told a European, German, today that as long as Russia leaves America alone I don’t care if Russia rolls over Germany.

We’ve bailed them, Europe, out of two world wars. I think a treaty can be negotiated with Russia where they would leave us alone. It’s not because I think Putin can be trusted or wouldn’t attack us if given the opportunity but because of our military capability.

I’m tired of being the world’s police force. I’m tired of the debt. I’m tired of being treated like fecal matter after saving their behinds. Yes, I am an isolationist. I’m an unapologetic rebel that often swims alone upstream.

Vince

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

America was pre-dominately isolationist before WWII. We probably all know the mantra "The war to end all wars." which followed the first WW. But the second one came anyway and the war didn't manage to stay within the eastern hemisphere. It wasn't out of an American sentiment of protecting Europe that we got involved in WWII, it just turned out that we were not too far off to be attacked by enemy forces at Pearl Harbor. Technology has only increased the mobility of the world's militaries and has continued to shrink the relative distances between our countries. From a purely historical outlook, I would have to wonder what would prevent this from happening again in the event of another large scale European war.

 

[clearwater]

I remember neighbors digging fall out shelters and being taught how to hide under desks in school. The Russians need to be contained. Reagan knew.

 

[TexasLife]

Told a European, German, today that as long as Russia leaves America alone I don’t care if Russia rolls over Germany.

We’ve bailed them, Europe, out of two world wars. I think a treaty can be negotiated with Russia where they would leave us alone. It’s not because I think Putin can be trusted or wouldn’t attack us if given the opportunity but because of our military capability.

I’m tired of being the world’s police force. I’m tired of the debt. I’m tired of being treated like fecal matter after saving their behinds. Yes, I am an isolationist. I’m an unapologetic rebel that often swims alone upstream.

Vince

EXACTLY, we don't need to be world police! But, if we don't fight over there, there'll be more fighting here. Screw nato and who as we DON'T need them! NATO us too slow!

 

[Vince]

America was pre-dominately isolationist before WWII. We probably all know the mantra "The war to end all wars." which followed the first WW. But the second one came anyway and the war didn't manage to stay within the eastern hemisphere. It wasn't out of an American sentiment of protecting Europe that we got involved in WWII, it just turned out that we were not too far off to be attacked by enemy forces at Pearl Harbor. Technology has only increased the mobility of the world's militaries and has continued to shrink the relative distances between our countries. From a purely historical outlook, I would have to wonder what would prevent this from happening again in the event of another large scale European war.

I’m in favor of nuclear weapons as a deterrent to invasion and have no problem nuking another country. We should have done it to Iran in the 1980’s.

For those thinking I don’t know the devastating effects of radioactive isotopes I’ve dealt with people that had radiation poisoning. I’ve seen the burns, the toll it takes on human flesh, and various other effects.

Vince

 

[PJGunner]

Well for the two World Wars, we didn't want to get involved until a German U boat sank the Lusitania which has any American citizens on board. We all know that Pearl Harbor was what dragged is into W2. Korea? Not so much except when the North Koreans came over the 38th Parallel there were a few atrocities doneof American military staton there. The one example I'm familiar with was when they came up to the weather station at Kimpo, the CO of the detachment considered himself and the few people under him to technically be non-combatant a just plain surrendered the detachment.The Norks took them to the nearest hanger and had them hanged. The Norks were not taking prisoners. It was that and the rest of the atrocities that dragged us into that one which we called a police action. I've stood on the ground where a bunch of our boys made a stand and it's labeled Task Forth Smith according to the monument there that was placed in their honor. There are ghosts there and you can sense their presence.
Viet nam and the rest of those wars after that are something, with the exception of Grenada to rescue American citizens, messes we should have kept our sorry asses out of. What a bloody waste!
Paul B.

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

I’m in favor of nuclear weapons as a deterrent to invasion and have no problem nuking another country. We should have done it to Iran in the 1980’s.

For those thinking I don’t know the devastating effects of radioactive isotopes I’ve dealt with people that had radiation poisoning. I’ve seen the burns, the toll it takes on human flesh, and various other effects.

Vince

I don't believe any world leaders have wanted to find out what would happen if we decided to open up that can of dragons, even the ambitious and corrupt ones. We are not the only ones with nukes, and quite possibly not the ones with the most, and almost certainly not the most prepared to survive a nuclear war.

 

[FNWhelen]

No matter the outcome of this war the vaunted Russian army is getting cut to pieces by second rate Nato arms. And Russia is losing the one thing they can not afford to lose that being huge numbers of young men. They already had a huge demographic problem with their birthrate and this is not going to help. I have personally seen cities where the marriage age women outnumbered the men by 7-1 or more.

 

[Aussie Wanderer]

Actually beginning to wonder who Trump is in bed with. He sends massive tariffs against his allies, votes on the UN Security Council with Putin against the majority of the world, says the intelligence agencies are to stand down their cyber activity with Russia, picks a fight with Zelensky and then says it makes great tv, have stopped sending arms to Ukraine, wants to take Greenland etc. From the outside looking in, it is not a good optic.

Anyone who advocates for nuclear war has no compassion for their fellow man and the millions of innocent people it kills and deforms over generations. The current geo-politic is probably about nuclear proliferation rather than the opposite. What crazy times we live in.

 

[FNWhelen]

Trump was better than the other choice but that does not mean I like or trust him. In the small amount of news I watch he has twice hinted the two term rule might not apply to him. Sort of the same crap his buddy Putin used. And no I am not a Democrat I just have not drank the Kool-aid.

 

[Vince]

I love what he, Trump, is doing as it’s upsetting the apple cart.

Vince

 

[Vince]

Actually beginning to wonder who Trump is in bed with. He sends massive tariffs against his allies, votes on the UN Security Council with Putin against the majority of the world, says the intelligence agencies are to stand down their cyber activity with Russia, picks a fight with Zelensky and then says it makes great tv, have stopped sending arms to Ukraine, wants to take Greenland etc. From the outside looking in, it is not a good optic.

Anyone who advocates for nuclear war has no compassion for their fellow man and the millions of innocent people it kills and deforms over generations. The current geo-politic is probably about nuclear proliferation rather than the opposite. What crazy times we live in.

The problem is that the world has grown too soft.

Go back in history and look at how wars were fought and the number of dead. It was a great form of population control. There are no innocents in war. It just depends on what country you were born in but all citizens of a country, or members of a group we’re fighting, are the enemy.

One of the worst things we ever did was create the War Crimes Tribunal after WWII. There is in my opinion no such thing as a war crime. War is designed to be inhumane and brutal. The more brutal you make it the faster it’s over. The words rape, pillage and plunder has become part of our vocabulary for a reason.

Vince

 

[IdahoCTD]

Trump hints at 3 terms just to trigger people. Most people dont get him and scream dictatorship. They screamed the same thing after the rigged 2020 election and he stepped aside as normal. Most rational people know that election had a stench to it. Basement Joe got 6 million more votes then Trump got in this election and nearly 10 million more than the messiah Obama, that some people actually liked. I would totally laugh if he ran as Vance's VP and Vance stepped aside so he could be president again just to see the democrats head explode. He can pick his VP if that happens and he can pick Vance as his VP. Then he could step aside in a couple months after the impeachment furor hit full tilt. In the meantime I'd be laughing saying I told you so. His ego is huge but he values his reputation more.

Zelensky picked that fight not Trump. He listened to the democrats prior to meeting Trump. Listen to what democrat Chris Murphy said after the meeting. The deal was done except for the signing and Zelensky tried to change it during a press conference. He is hung up on the US providing security rather than the EU and that aint gonna happen.

Reciprocal tarrif's are totally fair trade. The US has allow others to take advantage of us for years with super low to no tarrifs on most countries while those countries charge high tarrifs on our products. We cant hardly sell items to the EU because their tarrif and VAT taxes drive the prices so high we cant compete with EU products, cars are a perfect example. The tarrifs on Canada and Mexico are a push for them to be good neighbors. I'm sure after the Canadian elections the tarrif issue will get resolved. Trudeau is worthless. Mexico has looked the other way with the cartels, illegal immigration, drugs, and human trafficking forever. Trump and most of the people in the US are tired of it. Most likely those tarrifs dont last more than a couple months. Mexico is already caving and doing some of what they should have been doing all along. If I had to guess part of the ask from Trump is to allow our military to take out the cartels. The problem is the cartles bribe much of the government.

Trump is refraining from talking bad about Putin while trying to negotiate a peace deal. Makes sense to most people that dont get triggered. Pissing someone off prior to getting a deal is counterproductive to negotiations. That also explains the UN vote. Sending more arms to Ukraine is pissing money away. They really have no chance to win and more people are just going to die. For the most part that is Bidens fault for slow walking the better weapons through the whole war. Pulling arms from Ukraine is forcing Zelensky to make a deal while he still has a country. We are not a endless supply of money and arms despite Joe's claims. Once our charity ends Ukraine will crumble and all those billions of dollars spent to try and save their country will be thrown away, even Europes deal for repayment wont mean anything if Russia takes over Ukraine. Giving up part of their rare earth minerals to save 80+% of their country should be a no brainer when the alternative is 0%.

Trump will also kill Iran and Russia's cash with the drill baby drill philosophy. Reagan did the same to the USSR. He made oil so cheap it basically bankrupted them. The tarrif's on China plus the 15% corporate tax rate for goods made in the US will hammer their economy. Businesses will scurry back to the US dumping China. People need to look at the big picture.

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

The problem is that the world has grown too soft.

Go back in history and look at how wars were fought and the number of dead. It was a great form of population control. There are no innocents in war. It just depends on what country you were born in but all citizens of a country, or members of a group we’re fighting, are the enemy.

One of the worst things we ever did was create the War Crimes Tribunal after WWII. There is in my opinion no such thing as a war crime. War is designed to be inhumane and brutal. The more brutal you make it the faster it’s over. The words rape, pillage and plunder has become part of our vocabulary for a reason.

Vince

Torturing people for any sort of satisfaction is wrong whether it is during war or not. This has something to do with why we invented war crimes. Seeing things as only black and white can be dangerous game to play.

 

[Vince]

Torturing people for any sort of satisfaction is wrong whether it is during war or not. This has something to do with why we invented war crimes. Seeing things as only black and white can be dangerous game to play.

Who said there was any satisfaction in it?
The enemy is the enemy and deserves to be treated as such.

I realize it’s an extreme view but that’s my take on it. I have seen true evil. Been as close to it as you can get without fornicating it. If we are to fight a war let us fight so brutally that we never want to do it again but better yet anyone thinking about war recoils in horror.

Let the memory of it live in the hearts and minds of our enemies and our friends forever.

Vince

 

[FNWhelen]

Being pretty new to this forum I was wondering how folks would react to the threads going on about Russia. I am beyond happy to see that folks here can disagree and still be civil. On many forums if you do not see things one way it becomes non stop insults. There is always two sides to a coin and when flipped each side comes up about half the time.

 

[Vince]

Being pretty new to this forum I was wondering how folks would react to the threads going on about Russia. I am beyond happy to see that folks here can disagree and still be civil. On many forums if you do not see things one way it becomes non stop insults. There is always two sides to a coin and when flipped each side comes up about half the time.

Foolishness is not tolerated here thankfully.

We can agree to disagree and be ladies and gentlemen.

Vince

 

[3 Meter Para Bellum]

Who said there was any satisfaction in it?
The enemy is the enemy and deserves to be treated as such.

I realize it’s an extreme view but that’s my take on it. I have seen true evil. Been as close to it as you can get without fornicating it. If we are to fight a war let us fight so brutally that we never want to do it again but better yet anyone thinking about war recoils in horror.

Let the memory of it live in the hearts and minds of our enemies and our friends forever.

Vince

I was not attempting to suggest that you take satisfaction in other's pain, although their is a suggestion of irreverence in what you have said so far, however some people have and do take satisfaction in their opponents pain for the mere sake of causing pain or obtaining vengence. This I consider to be a self evident wrong and I believe it is a large contributing factor to the concept of war crimes.

We also would be astute to realize that the indifference that a country's borders draw is a cruel dictator of friend or foe. One of the individuals I respect most in the history of WWII is Dietritch Bonhoeffer. He was a German. He pushed the churches of Germany not to conform to the Nazi idealogies and was involed in multiple attempts to assasinate Hitler. He was an ally to the west despite the fact that he was a German. While generalization is necessary in war, specificity doesn't become irrelevent either.

Waging war as harshly as possible I think will always have a short lived impact. Few born after such a war will understand the lessons of that war.

 

[PJGunner]

Once upon a time there was a man named Timur I Leng. We know him by a more common name as Tamerlane. He has been known that after conquering a city, he would execute every living soul and make a pyramid of their skulls. One such pramid was said that held more than 100,000 skulls, men, women and children. There are also biblical tales of the Israelites doing the same thing on their march to the Holy land. Nothing new under the sun.
At the end of WW1, the free nations literally destroyed Germany. Germany rose back up and we have WW2. We beat them again but instead, we helped them become a country again. We did the same for Japan. Other countries also benefitted from our largesse. look at the thanks we get. No thanks but a lot more gimme gimme gimme. I say let NATO and the UN plod along on their own and we look out for ourselves for a change.
Paul B.

 

[Vince]

I was not attempting to suggest that you take satisfaction in other's pain, although their is a suggestion of irreverence in what you have said so far, however some people have and do take satisfaction in their opponents pain for the mere sake of causing pain or obtaining vengence. This I consider to be a self evident wrong and I believe it is a large contributing factor to the concept of war crimes.

We also would be astute to realize that the indifference that a country's borders draw is a cruel dictator of friend or foe. One of the individuals I respect most in the history of WWII is Dietritch Bonhoeffer. He was a German. He pushed the churches of Germany not to conform to the Nazi idealogies and was involed in multiple attempts to assasinate Hitler. He was an ally to the west despite the fact that he was a German. While generalization is necessary in war, specificity doesn't become irrelevent either.

Waging war as harshly as possible I think will always have a short lived impact. Few born after such a war will understand the lessons of that war.

We will agree to disagree.

I think the pain can last multiple generations if cruel enough. But then I do favor genocide if fighting a war.

Vince