Sensible Cartridges

[ozarkpugs]

Several people have it in bolts ,AR performance is the best place to go to get AR barrels and knowledge . Two things make it the great cartridge it is #1 it is very efficient and exactly enough power #2 the bullet companies have designed bullets specifically for the short barrels and velocity shoots them. . 7 mm bullets have to perform from slow 7x 47 speeds & twists up to 7 mm mag speeds & twist.308 bullets have to work from .308 W speed & twist to .300 Weatherby speeds & twist . Take for instance the 120 SST Hornady 6.8 we have taken deer with it close and far from 12.5 " to 18" and the wound damage looks the same and when bullets are recovered you cannot tell which is which .

I was reluctant to mention the 6.8 but since you brought it up I will add my 2¢ . The 6.8 went from almost obscurity to what I consider one of the most important new cartridges in over 50 years . The 6.8 is hands down the best short action ( youth size ) caliber . It has a shorter action and is more powerful with less recoil than a youth .243 it is inherently accurate with sub minute of angle with factory loads with quality barrels . Since the cartridge is designed for 14"-18" barrels you don't loose a tremendous amount of velocity going to 12.5 pistol length . Best of all it has helped make AR15s legitimate hunting guns . Face it ,a lot of people who claim to be second supporters only care about keeping their hunting guns and a lot of anti second say "We don't want to take away hunting guns" . Now we have Modern sporting rifles in deer calibers that are super accurate and very little recoil . The 6.8 has replaced my 7/08 & 30.06 for deer & my .243 and .223s for varmints .

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This is what I expected someone to say, as it pretty much echoes what I have read about the cartridge. I just have not played with it at all, so cannot comment from first hand experience.

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[Guy Miner]

I suppose it all depends on what we're trying to do with the cartridge.

A longish shot at big bull elk? I'd kinda like a 7mm, 30 cal, or 338 cal magnum. Something that carries a long, heavy, high BC, high SD bullet at good velocity, with great accuracy.

A short range shot at deer in thick cover? Hmm, 12 gauge comes to mind, but the 30-30, 32 special, 35 Rem, and other modest velocity cartridges come to mind.

For my hunting, the 25-06 & 30-06 have proved very sensible.

But there are a dozen cartridges (at least) which would do as well.

Put a good bullet where it belongs, and you're looking at success.

Regards, Guy

 

[Polaris]

I've shot the 6.5x55, .300 Savage, and I'd lump my .280 Rem in also as I shoot it mostly at 7x57 Speeds, and taken deer with all of the above.

Ones I think I would add to the list:
Modern .223rem...Fast twist barrel of at least 20", 5.56 pressures. Very efficient cartridge, just coming into it's own with some of the modern heavy bullet offerings for LR varmints or lighter big game such as hogs and southern deer.

(Barf) 6.5 Creedmoor. I hate how popular it is, but from targets to light-medium big game it's numbers can't be ignored.

7-08 Pretty much a modern +P7x57 in a short action.

.308 Win. Does almost what the 30-06 will, in a shorter action.

 

[djauofd]

Three choices. 270 win great all round bullet, recoil manageable, cheap and plentiful ammo. with 1*8 twist barrel you can shoot 170 gr Berger Elite Hunter. Next is the 30 06. Many of the same attributes as the 270 win SD’ss no as high as 270 and a little more recoil. But there are more selection of bullets than carter has pills. Last either the 260 Rem or 6.5 Creedmoor. Really sister cartridges all the same ballistics. If you hand load you can get a smidge more performance out of the 260 Rem. Low recoil, great high BC bullet selection. Creedmoor has better off shelf selection. If you hand load one as good as the other.


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[djauofd]

Yeah and 308 win after I thought about it. 90% of the performance of a 30 06 with all the great 30 cal bullet selection. within 300 yds the deer will not know the difference.


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[Guy Miner]

Agree. The 308 Win is just a peach of a cartridge.

So easy to load well, usually shoots great. I think a 308 would likely handle the vast majority of hunting situations, not just in North America, but in the world. Guessing at that last part, since I've only hunted in North America!

Find myself sometimes wanting a nice light, compact 308 Win... Just 'cause I like the cartridge so much.

So many nice, sensible cartridges avail out there...

Guy

 

[coop22250]

Agree. The 308 Win is just a peach of a cartridge.

So easy to load well, usually shoots great. I think a 308 would likely handle the vast majority of hunting situations, not just in North America, but in the world. Guessing at that last part, since I've only hunted in North America!

Find myself sometimes wanting a nice light, compact 308 Win... Just 'cause I like the cartridge so much.

So many nice, sensible cartridges avail out there...

Guy

Yeah here in AK I carry my 308 90% of the time. Last year I had my sights on a bigger than average brown bear, felt the need for a bit more. I know it would get the job done with my heavy partitions but I was pretty happy when 2 cubs walked out and I just got to watch her for an hour. Didn’t have to test my 308 theory by myself on top of a mountain haha.


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[salmonchaser]

It's amazing how big they are and how whimpy even a 454 feels when they are close.
The old man killed 6 ( I think) might be 8, with an 06. Guy killed a big one last year with 06. .308 is pretty dang close but I sure think I wouldn't want to go much lighter.


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[HAWKEYESATX]

Rest assured, there are no "flies" on the classics - .270 Win, .308 Win, .30-06, .300 Win Mag.
The "new" classics - .260 Rem, 6.5 CM, 7mm-08, .280 Rem have their devout followers, and rightfully so. If I like the .270 Win enough, I may add its ballistic twin, the .280 Rem, to my stable, or the .280 AI, since it is as well liked.
All of these will do 90-95% of all the hunting one can, or want to do at least in North America.

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[coop22250]

You are right about never big enough. Dad and I were hunting brown bears near Sitka and walked up the creek as it had high sides and could stay out of view. I popped up and this big bear stood up in 5’ grass at like 15 yards. I couldn’t tell if it had cubs due to the grass height, so we just stared at each other. I clicked the safety off my 375 h&h thinking the same thing, this isn’t big enough.


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[6mm Remington]

6mm Remington: Very sensible coyote, deer, and antelope cartridge. Well designed case that gets about all one needs from a .243 caliber bullet. 3100-3300 fps with 100 gr. Partition or 90 gr. AccuBond bullets is about as fast as you need to go without being too hard on barrels.

25-06 Remington: Wonderful coyote, deer, antelope, black bear, and elk (light) cartridge. Flat shooting and hard hitting. Very mild recoil. 120 gr. Partition at 3100 or 110 gr. AccuBond is very sensible!

280 Remington or 280 AI: What a fantastic cartridge for everything from coyotes to moose and even grizzly bears. A good 140-160 gr. bullet at 3000 fps or more works pretty darn good at just about anything you point it at. Very tolerable recoil and a very accurate cartridge.

30-06: Sensible is my name. 165-200 gr. bullets with enough pop and very manageable recoil that will take everything in North America. The father of a lot of off-spring and one of the best to ever be designed.

 

[Dwh7271]

I don't have an issue with your original list with a few additions that you folks have offered. Guess I don't have an issue with any of them. I like rifles.
Could have been made a simpler list though.
6mm Rem, 257 Roberts, 7X57.
308, 338 Federal, 358 Winchester.
There. We did the list using only two parent cases for the whole list. :grin:
You could even substitute the 7-08 for the 7X57 and still only use two cases.
Add the 260 to the list and you're still only using two.

 

[ShadeTree]

Just reading through I can't argue with what I've read. A lot of classic cartridges with today's powder and bullet choices, and availability, along with precision reloading tools available to all, are better than ever. Great time to be a gun nut in my opinion.

 

[noslerpartition]

Magnumitis is common over here, too. Coupled with some silly law and lack of ballistic knowledge.

Many areas demand lead-free in Germany and the rest will follow.

People did not adjust bullet-weight so they 'learned' that ttsx-like only work with large calibers, giving sensible calibers a bad reputation.

People around me switched to proper weight and construction and are mostly using the 308 now. With a good hand-load, they are head to head with several factory-loads for the 30-06.

For almost every situation here, the 308 is enough with many advantages.
Having said that, my younger son will start with a 6,5x55...



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[SJB358]

Love the little guys. 7-08, 7x57, 243, 6.5 CM, 6.5x55, etc. all of them are a bunch of fun to shoot and like has been said, today’s powders make them better than ever.

 

[RaySendero]

Sensible Cartridges only make sense when compared to the basics:

US: 22LR, 30-30, 270, 308, 30-06
Europe: 22LR, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57

"Sensible Cartridges" for your hunting would have to add something significant above and beyond these!

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Magnumitis is common over here, too. Coupled with some silly law and lack of ballistic knowledge.

Many areas demand lead-free in Germany and the rest will follow.

People did not adjust bullet-weight so they 'learned' that ttsx-like only work with large calibers, giving sensible calibers a bad reputation.

People around me switched to proper weight and construction and are mostly using the 308 now. With a good hand-load, they are head to head with several factory-loads for the 30-06.

For almost every situation here, the 308 is enough with many advantages.
Having said that, my younger son will start with a 6,5x55...



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You hit the nail right on the head, mein freund!
The .30-06 is very underloaded here, and yet, the .308 is loaded more to specs here, and most of the time will out do a factory loaded .30-06!
Even the .270 Win is loaded closer to specs than the .30-06 is.
I still love the old 6.5x55! It has even more gusto in Europe, than it does here across the pond.
Solid copper projectiles are coming into their own here, but a premium bonded bullet is still King, I believe.
So called environmentalist think they're doing the right thing, but they just muck it all up with dumb regulations, and make everything that much more expensive for everyone.

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[Blkram]

I still think that the main problem of the lead based bullet/ammo bans is that the type of lead used in ammunition for rifles, pistols and shotguns, IS NOT ABSORBED by the body (human, fish, fowl or game).
Sure, other forms of lead are a problem, but the general public does not know the difference.
Propoganda is influencing the uneducated masses!

We need to focus on busting the myth!

 

[Dwh7271]

You're exactly correct Gil.
There is an awful lot of junk science being used in the firearms and ammunition "opposition lobbies" imo.
Well said.

 

[noslerpartition]

I did not want to hijack the thread with a lead/lead-free discussion. But since we started: I think around water it makes sense, since birds seems to have stronger acids in the stomach.
For big game - well...
I found a lead-free bullet that works fine for me and lots of friends I load for. Even in 6,5x55 and 308 (and 223). Wrote a little review a while back.

Back to the topic: most hunting over here is done within 300 y, with the majority of shots under 100 and on game below 150 lbs. So nothing a 6,5 or 308 can't handle if a proper bullet is used and put where it belongs. Still, there a a lot of folks saying anything below 9,3x62 is a toy...

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