Sighting Issues Still - 338 Win Mag

[Stevesdl]

I cannot get consistent 3 shot groups. I removed the Limbs de-resonator. Still no help. Right now I am shooting 73 grain 225 NAB at a very very consistent 2895 to 2911 FPS. I just cant get 3 closer than 1 1/2" and usually after the first 4-5 shots, the groups maintain a consistent 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards.

I always thought a faster bullet is a more accurate bullet?

Should I defeat the purpose of a powerful 338 win mag round and go down to 72.5 or 72 or even 71.5 grain loads. Is it possible a slower bullet will get me that tight accuracy I am looking for? I am getting very frustrated\discourage\disappointed. Just to make sure it is just not my shooting, my son had his perfectly 200yd sighted in 300 WSM Savage and I had no problem matching that accuracy.

Please help. As Dr. Fraiser Crane would say; "I'm listening"

Thanks
Disappointed Steve

 

[JD338]

Steve,

Need more information to assist you...

What make, model and power scope?
Are the action screws tight, proper torque spec?
Scope bases and rings tight?
What is your COL?
What is the magazine max length?
Did your son shoot your 338? Same accuracy as you?

JD338

 

[bteate]

Keep your head up, Steve. You can play with seating depth, and drop back on the charge some and see if it gets better. You're getting about 150fps more out of the same load as mine, so your not in bad shape at all. I do beleive that ANY animal hit with the 225gr AB is going to have a very bad day, no matter what the speed is.

I've been fighting to get all the speed I can out of mine, but I'm trying to get that out of my head. Accuracy, Accuracy, Accuracy.

 

[Stevesdl]

Steve,

Need more information to assist you...

What make, model and power scope?
Are the action screws tight, proper torque spec?
Scope bases and rings tight?
What is your COL?
What is the magazine max length?
Did your son shoot your 338? Same accuracy as you?

JD338

Nikon Primus 3x9 40
Do not know proper torque specs
Scope base and rings perfect
Do not know what my COL is
Max length is 3.495 per using inside caliper measurements
Son shot - same thing as me.


Not sure about

 

[DrMike]

Two thoughts occur to me. Assuming that you haven't developed a flinch and accepting that the action screws and all the rings and bases screws are tight, I wonder if the crown has been damaged at some point. Recrowning is an exceptionally simple task, and it corrects a lot of poor shooting rifles. The other possibility is that the scope has cratered. Again, if you have a scope that you know is working on another rifle, this would be worth testing. Your chronographed velocities have enviable standard deviations, which would suggest that playing with seating depth should shortly give you a load with excellent accuracy.

 

[JD338]

Steve,

Try adjusting your COL up and down but keep it shorter than your magazine max so they will feed. TAell me what your COL is and I will give you some recommendations.

JD338

 

[Richracer1]

Don't know if this helps, but my 338WM Browning A-bolt liked 3.36 as a COL with the 225AB (measured from tip to brass base).

 

[Guy Miner]

"I always thought a faster bullet is a more accurate bullet?"

Accurate loads can be found up and down the velocity scale, fastest is not always most accurate, sometimes not even close. If you've got an accurate load 100 fps slower, go with it. You're still delivering a big, heavy, well-constructed bullet at good velocity.

I found a very accurate .375 H&H load with a 260 Nosler AccuBond at a mere 2620 fps - far below the maximum listed. It was so accurate and easy shooting that I used it on a recent bear hunt and easily dropped a nice black bear at 300+ yards. With the fairly large, heavy bullets you and I are using, even a couple of hundred fps one way or the other just doesn't matter all that much. Go for the accurate load, not the warp speed load... My recommendation.

What range do you anticipate hunting to? Despite my love of accurate rifles, I have no problem hunting with a 1.5 MOA accurate rifle out at 300 yards.

Regards, Guy

 

[Stevesdl]

Okay -- Went back out to the range today (you knew I would)

Reloaded 10 rounds for each of following:
72 grain at 3.336 (Made two variable changes: Lowered gr charge and also raised COL 3.336)
72.5 grain at 3.333 (Made one variable change: Lowered gr charge)

Take a look at the targets
The top target is with 3 rounds of 72 grain at 3.336 --> 1 1/8" FPS: 2824, 2833, 2839 :grin:
The bottom target is with 3 rounds of 72.5 grain at 3.333 -- > 1 3/4" FPS: 2871, 2872, 2879 :roll:

Conclusion:
You guys are RIGHT AGAIN!
1. I am leaning towards the COL is making the difference.
2. The lower charge amount appears to be a variable as well.

I went out and purchased a Hornady Lock-N-Load Straight O.A.L Guage. Not sure if it is any good but I can return it if I don't like it so I am going to see if that will give me a better discernment on what my COL should be. Any thoughts are more than welcome.

I am out to the range tomorrow: I have work to do but I feel better after todays results. Thanks Everyone!!! Everyone's comments are helping me understand this whole reloading fun.

 

[Guy Miner]

Top target in particular looks pretty good.

Bottom target shows good vertical, but a little stretched out on the horizontal plane. With me, that's normally either wind, or I'm getting a little clumsy with the trigger finger.

 

[Stevesdl]

Hey Guy,
You are right on the money. Out of no-where, after the first 3 shots, the wind come off my left and stayed with me for the rest of the day. I guestimate a 7-9 mph right across the range.

The trigger on my Weatherby Vanguard is the sweetest trigger "I" have ever felt and owned on a rifle. For sighting in, even after 30-35 rounds, I can honestly say "no trigger finger jerk". The combination of a beautiful, money well spent Muscle muzzle brake (I feel anyway), and a modified Sled bed with 50 additional pounds, I just feel so little that I do not have the normal "get ready for the kick" sense. Pretty much like firing a 22 mag for me anyway.

Now having said that, I have said that my Muscle muzzle brake was not as loud as what people comment, but I have also always had hearing protection on. Well today I made a mistake and did not have ear protection on the first shot. Geeeeshhh! I actually have a little buzzing in my right ear still this evening. Won't do that again.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[SJB358]

Steve,

The top target is with 3 rounds of 72 grain at 3.336 --> 1 1/8" FPS: 2824, 2833, 2839

Looks like a really good one. You have excellent speed, and great accuracy. If you are looking for more, changing your COAL a 1/4 turn at a time could get your dime sized groups you are looking for. Although, your above target looks pretty good for a 338 Win Mag. It seems you are closing in on the finish line buddy! Scotty

 

[Guest]

One thing I noticed in your last post, Steve, is that you're shooting off a very heavy sled. Try shooting the rifle off a set of sandbags and see what you get. Heavy sleds have a tendancy to introduce unreal stresses into the rifle when shooting, and these can have a highly negative effect on accuracy. All that energy that doesn't get transferred to your shoulder is going somewhere. Since the rifle isn't being allowed to move much, it's being translated into vibration, I suspect, and this is likely causing you grief in terms of vibrations. I like a good set of sandbags and even use a "sissy pad" on my shoulder for heavy kickers during load development, but I won't use a heavy "sled" type rest because it's not going to be reproducible without the heavy weight and "artificial" vibrations in the field.

 

[JD338]

One thing I noticed in your last post, Steve, is that you're shooting off a very heavy sled. Try shooting the rifle off a set of sandbags and see what you get. Heavy sleds have a tendancy to introduce unreal stresses into the rifle when shooting, and these can have a highly negative effect on accuracy. All that energy that doesn't get transferred to your shoulder is going somewhere. Since the rifle isn't being allowed to move much, it's being translated into vibration, I suspect, and this is likely causing you grief in terms of vibrations. I like a good set of sandbags and even use a "sissy pad" on my shoulder for heavy kickers during load development, but I won't use a heavy "sled" type rest because it's not going to be reproducible without the heavy weight and "artificial" vibrations in the field.

dubyam,

You bring up a very interesting point, and a good one! I never gave it any thought but you may have nailed it. I've never used a lead slead but what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

Steve, keep in mind that when you zero your rifle, do it of sand bags. I have been told by others that the POI will be different, usually higher, when a rifle is zeroed from the lead slead.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

I only use a Lead Sled when I have several exceptionally hard-kicking cartridges to work in a single day. Otherwise, all my work is off the bags.

 

[jmad_81]

I try to do all my work off sand bags as well. That top group looks pretty good to me. That is about all my 338 WM will do with the 225 Ab and IMR 4350, or rl-19. I figure I'm not shooting round squirrels with it so in doesn't need to be that tight of shooter. Don't get me wrong, I would love it to shoot better, but a guy can only fight it for so long before you find that that might be all your gun is capable of. There is nothing wrong with 1 1/8" groups out of a 338 WM. Very easily minute of elk!

 

[Stevesdl]

Darn good point regarding the Lead Sled!! The sled stays in the car this next time out. This will also give me a chance to feel the 338 with just the muzzle brake. Let's hope I don't start flinching after a few shots like Guy mentioned. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Yeah I know I am looking for near perfection, but I will settle for just .875 for 100 yds on a continuous consistent basis. :lol: :lol:
I like that "minute of elk" thought!
Some more good points and applying these as I go.

Can't get out today so going tomorrow if the weather is permitting.

Thanks All
Steve

 

[JD338]

Steve,

The recoil on your braked 338 WM should be fairly easy to work with but everyone is different and has their own tolerance level. Nothing to be assamed of. Keep in mind that there are different reflexes going on when shooting, the physical recoil and also the noise factor.
I would recommend that you wear both ear plugs and ear muffs. When I used to shoot High Power competition, I started wearing both plugs and muffs and my scores went up.
Just one more thing to ponder........ :grin:

JD338

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I had a simlar experince with the 225gr AB's in my Model 70. They shot well around 2850 with 71.5gr of H4350, but opened up at higher velocities. Since then I've worked up loads with the 200gr BT/AB flying at 3050 with H4831, and 3150 with H4350. Both shoot .75 MOA groups.

 

[SJB358]

3150 with 200's is flying! That sounds like an awesome load. I wonder what I could get out of the 180gr BT's I have on the bench? Scotty