Smokeless Powder ammo in Black Powder antique revolver?

[Guy Miner]

Question for the group. We have some very experienced handloaders here and I've not ventured into this area before.

I have a S&W First Model Double Action Revolver in 44 Russian. The gun is in good mechanical condition, though the finish is well worn and even some pitting. The last of these were made in 1913, some 50,000+ of them were made. The last frames for them were supposedly made in 1899. The 44 Russian was a black powder cartridge.

Because of Cowboy Action Shooting, the 44 Russian has made a bit of a comeback. Sometimes Starline even makes a run of brass for it. The 44 Russian got it's start in 1870. Eventually it grew into the wonderful 44 Special, which in turn gave us the magnificent 44 magnum in the 1950's. It's the old 44 Russian that gave us our .429" diameter and the same rim size as the Special and the Magnum.

Question is... This old revolver is a black powder cartridge gun... Can I safely fire wimp bubba baby smokeless loads from it?

Like 600-650 fps loads with a soft lead 240 gr bullet?

Discussion please, and Thank You! I've only used black powder in my 50 cal muzzle loading rifle. Worked great in that application.

If I had a new Uberti or Pedersoli reproduction, I wouldn't even be worried. Heck, HSM even sells "Cowboy" ammo in 44 Russian.

Regards, Guy

 

[truck driver]

I wouldn't shoot modern fast burning powder because it builds pressure fast, even wimpy loads. Should it come unlocked you would get a piece of brass flying out at your face. Ther should be loads for triple 7 or other black powder substitute powder that you could use safely.

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Guy If you could find some of that Trail Boss it was made for your application. Haven't seen any for long time but maybe a good Samaritan would part with some.

 

[jimbires]

I did a little digging around . I have nothing in my manuals . I did find this ; about halfway down the page is " other models " the second paragraph is about this gun . it states northing but black powder in these old guns . the whole article would be worth reading . it talks about trail boss .

https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/the-44-russian/

 

[RL338]

Guy , I load 3 different cartridges for my brother that were black powder based. 43 Spanish , 33 Dutch Beaumont , and 44-40. All 3 firearms are well over 100yrs old.
43 Spanish is loaded with 5744
43 Dutch Beaumont is also loaded with 5744
44-40 is loaded with either Trailboss or Unique
All are loaded with only modest pressure for longevity of the rifle and brass.

 

[Guy Miner]

I did a little digging around . I have nothing in my manuals . I did find this ; about halfway down the page is " other models " the second paragraph is about this gun . it states northing but black powder in these old guns . the whole article would be worth reading . it talks about trail boss .

https://americanhandgunner.com/gear/the-44-russian/

I'm going to go with John Taffin: "All of the original S&W .44 Russian chambered top-breaks, whether they be single or double action, should only be used with black powder." John has a whole lot more knowledge than I do about old revolvers and loading for them.

I "think" I could come up with a nice light smokeless powder load for it, but maybe the old gun just deserves a proper diet of black powder & lead bullets. If I ever even shoot it.

RL338 - I appreciate that info and have loaded smokeless powder in an old 11.7mm Danish rolling block rifle with good results.

Thank you. Guy

 

[wvbuckbuster]

Guy I agree with you on the black powder loading. I checked my copy of Ken Water's Pet Loads. His article from July 1993 on the 44 Russian states that only black powder should be used in pistols of your age group and that he found the common load to be 23 grs FFg black powder. Something to go on.
Dan.