Stuck cases

[spires5d]

My son has a new Weatherby vanguard 30-06 and I reloaded some shells for him to go to Texas on a exotic hunt. I loaded some new Remington cases with 150 grain Hornady BTSP bullets. I set the case and bullet with COL. AT 3.250" hE CALLS ME THE OTHER NIGHT AND SAID THAT HE HAD 2 CASES TO STICK ON HIM and had to jam a cleaning rod down the barrel to get them out. I had the same thing happen with my other son who has a .280 Rem. I've got a single shot 30-06 that I'm shooting Remington cases with 165 grain Nosler BT'S and the COL on them is listed at 3.300". They work fine in my single shot handy rifle and I also tried the 165 in my son's weatherby when he got it and they went in and out of the rifle just fine. Is the Hornady bullet hanging up in the barrel or is there something wrong with the cases? All help is appreciated.






NOSLERS ROCK!

 

[DrMike]

Likely, he has a short throat on the rifle. You may need to adjust the COAL to match his rifle. Each rifle is an individual. You might test this by measuring some factory ammunition against your own ammunition, after ensuring that the factory ammunition cycles through the action. Since you loaded Hornady, measure a Hornady cartridge, noting the COAL.

Make certain, however, that his chamber is not dirty. Sometimes a dirty chamber will cause a case to stick. Don't assume that just because a rifle is new that it does not have a dirty chamber. I have seem some surprisingly dirty chambers in new rifles out of the box.

Before hunting, it is a good idea to check all bullets to ensure that they cycle through the action. Do this at the gun range, or pull the firing pin from the bolt before cycling.

 

[JD338]

spires5d

How far off the lands in your son's rifles?

JD338

 

[cloverleaf]

In my 250 Savage (.25 Cal) I find the the hornady 75 Gr V-max has a loger ogive (apparently) than a Nosler 100 grBT. If I load the 100grainers just off the lands and load the 75's with out adjusting the dies to seat them deeper the bullet will be marked by the rifling. From this I deduce that Hornadys are a Little different shape. Still I wouldnt think this would cause the case to "stick". Just some questions:
Is the camber itself rough?
I assume you dont have any other high pressue signs?
Lubricant in the chamber can cause a problem, seems counter intuitive but I have heard that it lets the brass flow to easily and makes the case stick. Cant say if this is even possible for sure.
Actual extractor problems?
There are many folks here with more reloading experience than me. Somebody will come up with a solution.
Let us know what you find. CL

 

[Charlie-NY]

I"m not sure what you mean. Are the sticking cases loaded cases or are they empty cases that were just fired in his rifle?

 

[spires5d]

Well,I have no way of telling how far off the lands or rifleing as I can't see inside the chamber or barrel. Also these are new cases that haven't been fired and have stuck to the bore. From what I have read so far, the Hornady bullets are being seated to the barrel when the bolt is closed and the way the bullets are made are hanging up in the barrel by using the Hodgdon specs of COAL 3.250". Earlier I tried some new cases with Nosler BT'S at COAL 3.300" and they didn't hang up . I think that Nosler is going to be the better bullet to use at 150 grain instead of the Hornady. Thanks for the help.


NOSLERS ROCK!

 

[Richracer1]

I have a Vanguard in 30-06 as well. If memory serves me right, a 180AB would be touching the rifling around 3.41". I found the sweet spot for my rifle & load of H414 at 3.39". This is also the COL for my 180ET load as well. My brass is Nosler for the 180AB and Win for the 180ET - don't ask why I use two brands, it's a long story.

FWIW, I measure COL the crude way, from base to bullet tip.

 

[Ol` Joe]

I think the problem is the bullet is being jammed in the lands and hanging up. You need to find how long you can load and keep the bullet out of the rifleing, something you need the rifle in your hands to do. Each bullet brand/style/ and weight has a different nose geometry and will need to be seated to a different length.

 

[cloverleaf]

As far as bullet seating depth goes there a tools available to help you measure and set distance from the lands. My poor mans way is to blacken a bullet with a sharpie after seating it in an EMPTY (no primer) factory case. Seat the bullet to factory max lenght, blacken the bullet and insert it in the chamber. If you are into the lands there will be marks from the rifling on the bullet. If not you can pull the bullet adjust your die an 1/8 of a turm further out, reseat the bullet, blacken it again and reinsert it into the chamber. Repeat the process until you get the faintest of marks where the black ink is removed by the lands of the rifling. Now adjust you die down an 1/8 or 1/4 of a turn. Re-blacken the bullet and put it in the chamber. You should have no marks on the bullet and be just off the lands. Measure that round and write down the measurement with a record of the bullet type and weight used. The next time you use that load you have a Max length to go to.

As I said there are tools made by the major companies that make this process quicker, easier and probably more accurate.

Seems odd that you'd get the whole case stuck this way. When it happened to me I actually pulled the bullet from the case and dumped the powder all over the action. But then I have a Mauser, maybe that made a difference.

Again, can this be an extractor problem?

CL

 

[Powerstroke]

On a side note.... definately not an issue you want to have in the field / hunting sutuation w/ sticking a bullet in the lands.
Start to pull the live round out and separate the case from the bullet.... :shock:

 

[Charlie-NY]

Using the same ammo that you had trouble with - just seat the bullets .020" deeper into the case and see if this resolves the problem.

 

[chet]

I doubt it's getting stuck due to bullet/land relationship.
We need more info..... but I'm betting it's the case getting stuck.
Possibly a dirty chamber as mentioned above
or the case itself is too long, forcing it past the neck portion into the throat which jams the cases neck between the bullet and the bore.... they get stuck pretty damn tight in that situation. and can cause dangerously high pressures when fired. Was the brass measured and/or trimmed after full length sizing? new brass? once fired?

also.... when a manual states a COAL they are refering to the length from tip of bullet to the back of the case. NOT THE READING ON YOUR CALIPER WHILE USING A COMPARATOR! I know that sounds like a stupid mistake..... but I'm sure it's been misinterpreted before.

 

[chet]

my bad, I see you mentioned it was new brass.
Did you size it? measure? trim?
I always size and trim new brass.... just to square up the neck and make them all the same.

 

[Divernhunter]

Simple answer. If the chamber is clean and the rounds are sticking before firing then the bullet is seated out too far or the seating/crimping die is colapsing the shoulder as it is adjusted too deep.
If sticking after firing the load is too hot for the rifle. This can also be partly caused by seating the bullets out to the rifleing and not allowing any bullet jump.
One last thing to try is a few factory rounds to see if they funtion fine. If they do not time to check out the rifle.

Personal thought. Too many people try to make match ammo for hunting. You do not need the longest posible cartridge length etc but you do need reliable ammo.

 

[Innovative]

spires5d........

There are only 2 reasons why handloads don't chamber. Some part of your cartridge is either too long OR it's too wide. It's easy to "measure" and compare your handloads (at the shoulder) to your chamber, and make them fit perfectly.

Most "fail to chamber" symptoms are caused by cases that are too long at the shoulder.

- Innovative

 

[7mmXBOLT]

Max oal on the 30-06 cartridge is 3.340. If your only seating 3.250 I highly doubt your cramming the ojive into the lands enough, if at all, to make them stick. Lets not foreget the mile of free bore Weatherby rifles are noted for. Did your son happen to mention anything about the bolt closing hard; hence cartridge to long? I would be in the camp of the new brass not being FL sized or a dirty throat and possibly a combination of the both. Always a good idea to fire form your new brass as every rifles throat is different.

 

[muleman]

Just a thought. I'm not nearly as experienced as most on this forum but I have some Hornaday bullets I'm shooting up for practice(got'em free with the press) and the max coal listed for them is 2.735(.308) in my Hornaday manual. That's a might shorter than 2.810 listed as max for the cartridge elsewhere. Might be the same for the '06.
Best of luck!
Scott

 

[7mmXBOLT]

Just a thought. I'm not nearly as experienced as most on this forum but I have some Hornaday bullets I'm shooting up for practice(got'em free with the press) and the max coal listed for them is 2.735(.308) in my Hornaday manual. That's a might shorter than 2.810 listed as max for the cartridge elsewhere. Might be the same for the '06.
Best of luck!
Scott

2.810 is SAMMI OAL to fit any short action .308 chamber. 2.735 is where Hornady tested the seating of that bullet so thats Hornady's suggested OAL. Check out Cartridges of the world. Definitly not the same for the 30-06. A whole different animal.

 

[7mmXBOLT]

spires5d........

There are only 2 reasons why handloads don't chamber. Some part of your cartridge is either too long OR it's too wide. It's easy to "measure" and compare your handloads (at the shoulder) to your chamber, and make them fit perfectly.

Most "fail to chamber" symptoms are caused by cases that are too long at the shoulder.

- Innovative

Could this be Mr.Willis himself from Innovative Technology? If you are great Headspace gage by the way. I don't know how I ever set up my sizer dies correctly without it. Perfect solution, Thanks

 

[kraky]

I can tell you that some of the hornady bullets I've bought lately have a profile that gets them into the rifling real ez. In some of my rifles I've even had to seat deeper than the cannelure ring.
Like past posters have said...make up a dummy round and check it out.
I simply take a fired unsized case and either ding up the case mouth or touch it with a die enough that you can slide a bullet into it with some friction. Hang the bullet out of the case and chamber it and see how deep the riflling will push the bullet into the case. Do this several time to get a consistan measurement......then deduct about .005-.008 as often the bullet has gone into the lands slightly when pushed back.
It would not surprise me from what I've seen from late issued hornady bullets that you are into the lands with the bullet. Only taking a measurement will tell you. Keep that casing around for other bullet testing as profiles and seating depths vary HUGELY!!