The 200gr Accubond and Mike's Ruger Hawkeye

[FOTIS]

Posting for Bullet


FOTIS, Mason will not be able to straighten out my account until tomorrow late. I need you to start a thread and post this for me explaining why I can't at the moment. Here are my thoughts on the 200gr AccuBond after me and Bob (a shooting friend) did some testing using his strain gauge on some loads to check pressures. Would you start a new thread entitled "The 200gr AccuBond and Mike's Ruger Hawkeye" explaining to the guys why I needed you to start the thread. Thanks


The 200gr AccuBond and Mike's Ruger Hawkeye



Let me say, that after trying the 200gr AccuBond for accuracy and velocity, I am disappointed to say the least.


Tests were done with a strain gauge to determine safe loads for my Hawkeye 358Win.


First: TAC powder is the winner in velocity that is safely within pressures or under max pressures and top velocity with max safe pressures was 2629fps on average. Now that said, 51grs of TAC is over the threshold and anyone who posted that they use a charge of 52grs of TAC behind the 200gr AccuBond, needs to understand that even though they did not experience what they think are pressure signs - 52grs is a Dangerous load!!!! If a person keeps using 52grs of TAC, don't say that you were not warned.

The following powders along with TAC have been tested - IMR4895, H4895, W748, AA2495, BL-C2 and they were all slower than TAC and none reached over 2600fps with my 22” barrel and still remained within safe parameters or was compressed as much as possible yet still safe.


Second: The most Accurate load was with W748, but very slow and it was not as accurate as my 225gr AccuBond load using TAC that moves 2556fps on the average much less my 225gr AccuBond load using TAC that moves 2506fps on the average.


Third: I did a heavy day of testing and have “40” 200gr Accubonds left from my second box. To put it plainly, the 200gr AccuBond will not out preform the 225gr nor will it be an all around bullet like the 225gr AccuBond in my 358Win.


Fourth: I will trade anyone the “40” 200gr Accubonds I have left for any 30 or more 225gr Accubonds. If interested please PM me with your address and I will give you my address and we can trade.


Fifth: I have been loading for too many years too know that I don't need too test this bullet any longer in my rifle (maybe your rifle will do better) and that the 225gr AccuBond will be my go to bullet, not the 200gr AccuBond. Anyone who claims to have 2700fps or 2700fps + with the 200gr AccuBond in a 358Win, I would like to know your powder and the charge you used to accomplish this if it is not one of the above mentioned powders (because I know what their charge limits for acceptable pressures are in my rifle) and if you do not want to tell me on the forum then would you please PM me. Yes, I am very skeptical of anyone who says they are getting over 2700fps or more in a 358Win using the 200gr AccuBond and that they assume or claim they are operating at max or under max pressures.


To summarize: I am not impressed at all with the 200gr AccuBond for velocity nor Accuracy in my 358Win and you all know how accurate my rifle has been as I have consistently posted my target results and velocities using the 225gr AccuBond and 225gr Sierra SBT on this forum time and again.

 

[nvbroncrider]

That's sad was just had a thought cross my mind about finding a .358 Win barrel for my Savage 99 today. But I do respect your concerns and data to the forum. Thanks Mike.

 

[SJB358]

Well, I guess we can't have everything with every rifle I guess. It was a good try though Mike. Hard to argue with your success with the 225 AB.

What was your COAL for your loads tested?

 

[tjen]

What isntrumentation do you use for your measurements? I can't take any instrumentation home even old stuff we do not use any more.

Every rifle is different may be some of the whelens will print tight with the 200AB.

I do not need a 358/200gr bullet just a 220-225gr that will fit in a 2.780" OCL and still hope for a 220gr Solid Base Bonded that is less expensive than the Partition. The Partition is in my oppinoin the do all bullet it the 358win its only draw back is cost.

 

[PJGunner]

Very interesting and very thorough. Good report. As has been said, every rifle is different. The next one down the road just might be a tack driver. Didn't Ruger change to a 1 in 12" twist in the Hawkeye? I thought I read that somewhere. I have two Ruger 77s, tang safety models and they have a 1 in 16" twist and I can't make them shoot anything. I restocked one with a McMillam stock and it still shoots like crap. My Savage 99 and Browning BLR .358's are quite accurate for lever actions although I did have to tinker with the forearm of the BLR to make it shoot. I did get my best accuracy from one of the Rugers using H335 and the 200 gr. Hornady SP but haven't chonographed the load. I've been too busy playing with the .35 Whelen. :lol:
Paul B.

 

[DrMike]

Paul,

My Ruger Hawkeye .358 is a twelve twist. The Hawkeye 35 Whelen, however, was a 16 twist.

 

[AzDak42]

Now I'm tempted to grab a box and try them out of my 48 to see how they print with a 35 Whelen.

 

[Guest]

Mike,
Stick with the 225 AB and never look back. With your proven results in that 358 I wouldn't try anything else. Case closed! :mrgreen:

I'm holding on to the 225 in my Whelen. It may be a little heavy for Whitetails but overkill still is DRT. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Don

 

[bullet]

What isntrumentation do you use for your measurements? I can't take any instrumentation home even old stuff we do not use any more.

Every rifle is different may be some of the whelens will print tight with the 200AB.

I do not need a 358/200gr bullet just a 220-225gr that will fit in a 2.780" OCL and still hope for a 220gr Solid Base Bonded that is less expensive than the Partition. The Partition is in my oppinoin the do all bullet it the 358win its only draw back is cost.

Bob uses PressureTrace outfit from Southwest Products. Yes, every rifle is different, but my experience with the 358Win and testing loads I am of the opinion that most any Hawkeye will fall somewhere in the ball park of my Hawkeye which generates more than average velocities with the 225gr AccuBond. I am of the opinion that the 35 Whelen as a cartridge will act different and produce some positive velocities and accuracy with the 200gr AccuBond, but to think people will get + 2700fps using the 200gr AccuBond with a 358Win will more than likely have to have loads that are over the 52,000cup SAAMI recommendation for the cartridge. Not everyone has a chronograph, but everyone has a wish list in their head.

 

[bullet]

Mike,
Stick with the 225 AB and never look back. With your proven results in that 358 I wouldn't try anything else. Case closed! :mrgreen:

I'm holding on to the 225 in my Whelen. It may be a little heavy for Whitetails but overkill still is DRT. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Don

I like to turn over every rock I can, but I am in total agreement with you now on using the 225gr AccuBond from now on for my go to load.

 

[bullet]

Well, I guess we can't have everything with every rifle I guess. It was a good try though Mike. Hard to argue with your success with the 225 AB.

What was your COAL for your loads tested?

First of all, my rifle really shoots the Cor-lockt 200gr very well and gives me just over 2600fps and also the 200gr Hornady interlock also gives me 2628fps average and shoots under and inch also. I do believe that the 200gr AccuBond will work well in the 35 Whelen and looking forward to see how those who shoot the 35 Whelen do with the 200gr AccuBond.

My groups at over 2600fps with the 200gr AccuBond was just under an inch but it was the lack of accuracy compared to the 225gr AccuBond and I really wanted to have better velocities without going over max recommendations for the cartridge, that turns me off of the use of the bullet when compared to the 225gr as an all around bullet for the 358Win. My OAL was the same with first testing of TAC as the 225gr AccuBond and then the second testing a little shorter. I think the bullet will really work well in the Browning but velocity reality with acceptable pressures needs to be accepted, especially with 20" or shorter barrel.

 

[dlove]

I tested a few rounds today with my whelen. keep in mind that my rifle is a $250 H&R 22".

I only loaded a few rounds to play with as there is no real data yet from nosler.

first group was 60gr of varget @ 2737, 2737, 2743 that shot into about a 4" group. I didn't bother shooting any more varget loads. I'll pull them and do something different.

8208 xbr:
58.0 gr @ 2783, 2777, 2777 into a 3" group
59.0 gr @ 2795, 2795, 2812 into a 4" group (shoots under 1" with corlokt)

I won't load any more of these until Nosler gets some data out. maybe my rifle doesn't like this bullet or I'm using powders that are completely wrong.

I spent the rest of the day shooting my .270.

 

[JD338]

I hope we get some good range reports soon.

JD338

 

[bullet]

There will be, but folks need to remember to give the AccuBond a little jump and don't put it right next to the lands or barely off the the lands, because if they do more often than not they will not get good accuracy.

 

[tjen]

I locked on to the comment about " needs a little jump to shoot better".

Shooting is layer opon layer of varieables that effect each other so here is a thought.
When some bullets need seem to need more jump, or one powder does better. How much of that is changing the input to better miss the barrel harmonics active frequency.

I other wards its just not as simpile as if the bullet exits between this and that velocity ( for a given rifle) it will be accurate ( bullet exit timing). The harmonics are set but if you exsite the barrel with a different hammer it won't tune up the same or as bad. I thinking the pressure curve singiture is the hammer or input that exsites the barrel vibration.

 

[bullet]

I locked on to the comment about " needs a little jump to shoot better".

Shooting is layer opon layer of varieables that effect each other so here is a thought.
When some bullets need seem to need more jump, or one powder does better. How much of that is changing the input to better miss the barrel harmonics active frequency.

I other wards its just not as simpile as if the bullet exits between this and that velocity ( for a given rifle) it will be accurate ( bullet exit timing). The harmonics are set but if you exsite the barrel with a different hammer it won't tune up the same or as bad. I thinking the pressure curve singiture is the hammer or input that exsites the barrel vibration.

Yes, the pressure curve is the main consideration for the timing of the shock wave which will reverberate up to the end of the barrel and back to the receiver multiple times and the the best time is when the shock wave is at the receiver end because that means the muzzle is less active and bullet obturation (which is determined by powder charge and seating dept along with construction of the bullet) do greatly impact the pressure curve and the timing of the shock wave. The AccuBond is a harder bullet than the Ballistic tip and therefore harder for it to obturate (fill and seal the bore) so it takes just a little more jump in most of the rifles I have owned and shot the AccuBond in, getting better accuracy most of the time with the AccuBond by giving it a little more jump.

 

[dlove]

decapped my brass this morning. the 59g of 8208 showed pretty clear pressure signs on the primers. I've used heavier loads with this powder and other bullets with no pressure signs. the AccuBond was 60fps faster than my other 8208 loads(bullets) with the same charge. the varget charged loads were almost identical to the other bullets.

I loaded mine as short as I could get them. I was just hoping to get a starting point. so far, in my rifle, every load combination I've tested has grouped better with the max charge.

 

[SJB358]

Dlove, I am looking forward to your results. How long were you able to load them, or actually, how short? I need to get them under 2.800 to work in my BLR.

 

[dlove]

brass trimmed to 2.484 COL of 3.296

 

[SJB358]

Got ya. Thank you.