I'm a little irritated about this. New batch of WLRM primers working up a load for 150gr ABLR in 7RM. Loaded with 60.0 gr IMR 4350 3rd shot of sting, no pressure signs. A freak accident or a poor quality primer? I don't think the brass was the issue. Anyone had this happen before?
The downside to my last trip to the range
- Thread starter ksubuck
- Start date
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
Man that bites. Did the round go off as normal? The only time I have ever seen such an event was when a primer pocket was way too loose for the primer and it allowed the gas to leak past. From the one picture it looks like the side of the primer has a small hole in it? I would hold on to the primer and maybe send it in to winchester to be inspected.
BD1
Beginner
- Nov 4, 2013
- 97
- 0
From your pics its not the first time I've seen it, it happened to me once with Remmy primers.
Bad production run, weak cups and pin holes aren't good for bolt faces either. I know several other fellas that this has happened to.
Contact Winchester and follow up with them about a possible recall on your lot of primers. If not they will likely want yours to look at.
They may make you whole on your expenses.......
Bad production run, weak cups and pin holes aren't good for bolt faces either. I know several other fellas that this has happened to.
Contact Winchester and follow up with them about a possible recall on your lot of primers. If not they will likely want yours to look at.
They may make you whole on your expenses.......
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
I guess I should knock on wood that I have never had a primer failure.
- Thread starter
- #5
It is a nice pin hole failure in the primer that burned a notch in the case and bolt face. Round went off fine and don't think it mad a difference with the group size as it was sub MOA. When I opened the bolt I saw a little smoke, then saw the blackened case head.
Was planning on contacting them to see what they thought.
Was planning on contacting them to see what they thought.
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
ksubuck":109blgan said:
Be sure to let them know what it did to your bolt face as well.
I punched a couple of holes in primers in my 25-06 with CCI without any damage to the bolt face. I switched to Federal primers in this rifle and haven't had any further issues. Is there any possibility the bolt face was damaged prior to the primer being blown?
- Thread starter
- #8
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
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I would suggest that the primer pocket was slightly enlarged. With the copper cup that Winchester now uses, even a slight enlargement of the primer pocket will result in gas leakage. Generally, at the first sign of enlargement of the pocket, I will switch to a steel cup (CCI or Federal primer) to avoid this problem.
I had this happen with some factory black hills ammo for my 338 lapua. I had 2 out of 12 rounds do it. Called black Hills and they had me send the rest back to them. They sent me 2 boxes of ammo in return, and a couple of those did it as well. I didn't notice the bolt face had been eroded until after I had contacted Black Hills.
Ridgerunner665
Handloader
- Oct 28, 2008
- 2,516
- 298
DrMike":1e2zkd64 said:
Yep...Federal brass is a bit soft, and the primer pocket will stretch rather easily...I've only used Federal brass for 308 and 270, its OK with mild loads in the 308, but won't last long with full pressure 270 loads.
And what is the benefit of using a copper primer cup? Copper is more expensive and weaker than steel...don't see the point, but I've only used CCI and Federal primers (mostly CCI)
tddeangelo
Handloader
- May 18, 2011
- 2,023
- 20
On the opposite end of the spectrum, I just had the second "dud" primer from the same brick of Winchester LR primers. First happened when I took a "shot" at a buck this fall. I managed to get to a fresh round and still drop him. Now I had another at the range this week. Not liking seeing this with Win primers, too.....
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
- 37,314
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NYDAN":2f1nkmoq said:
It can be, but not necessarily so. The hand loader has to take into consideration the entirety of the firing sequence before drawing that conclusion.
DrMike":2i4b87ie said:
Hmm. I may have jumped to conclusions. I thought it was unlikely that I had made such a high pressure round. I ASSUMED that since the primer blew it HAD TO BE over pressure. I even asked another hand loader who stated that the only reason a primer would blow would be due to high pressure. I didn't know about the differences in primer materials at that time. Thank you for the insight.
How do you know if a primer pocket is "loose" until you put a live primer in it? I can tell differences in the tightness of primer pockets when I put the primers in. But, when I can feel it is "not tight", I have to either de-prime it (I am not very comfortable doing that) or fire the primed case in the rifle.
DrMike
Ballistician
- Nov 8, 2006
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When I see leakage from the primer, it is indicative that the pockets are likely loose. You are correct that when you seat the primer you will feel if it is becoming enlarged. I have removed many primers with a universal decapping die. Wear safety glasses and press slowly; it is unlikely that you will encounter a problem.
11 Charlie
Beginner
- Jan 31, 2013
- 18
- 0
I had the exact same thing happen last year with my 300 WBY.I called Winchester expecting to have to explain what happened, my loads, sending samples, etc. First thing the guy asked was what was the lot #. I told him and he told me how to package them, what to write on the box, and to leave them on my front porch and UPS would get them the next day. No questions asked because it was a known faulty lot #. They sent me a check for replacement($35.00). I called and told him they cost me over twice that online so he said to buy more and send him the receipt.I told him about my bolt face damage. He said to send it to Weatherby and pay out of pocket then send him the receipt and I would be reimbursed. After a lot of back and forth over time I could not get them to budge on that requirement. He insisted their accounting rules or policies, etc. made that a requirement. As Weatherby told me at least the bolt body, if not the whole bolt would need replacing (along with headspace work for that), plus my bolt is damascened and hand honed, along with all of the other fees and labor charges it was going to be expensive and beyond my ability to pay.I asked for a cash settlement, to no avail, at least not yet. I am going to ask if they will just give me a fraction of the cost so we can all be happy, Winchester off the hook and me with enough to get a few components to shoot a bit more than I can now.With health problems I would be happier shooting with my time then waiting for a long time, maybe too long.( At least I got it officially in writing, so if things get better and I don't get cash, I still have the option of sending it in.) Thank God my Mark V is still just as accurate,consistently sub-moa and often sub half moa just with some ugly cosmetic damage that didn't affect it's functioning. Sorry for the long winded response to let you know Winchester will make it right, just with "caveats". God Bless, good luck, and good shooting!
- Thread starter
- #20
In touch with Winchester. Sending spent primers and brass in first wave. Waiting for hazmat shipper to return primers from the lot. They are being very helpful but aren't going to offer much information until they investigate further. Think they wish I had left my remaining loaded rounds intact to send in. I pulled and deprimed the brass to send the primers back, confirmed charge weights (all within a tenth of what they were supposed to be), and remeasured primer pockets which were all acceptable. No way I'm sending everything in, kind of protective of my weight matched cases since brass is hard to come by lately...
