The Mossberg Patriot Rifle.

[Thankful Otter]

Cheyenne, I am not sure if you'll go farther the first day, but if you are doing it day after day and I think fatigue in the overall picture may come into play. I have carried alot of weight all over the mountains while hunting and while deployed overseas. If any member of my team could have cut 2 lbs, we would have. ounces make pounds was our mantra and being on your feet for hours on end everything counts in my opinion.

If youre only hiking a few miles a day and not being pushed to get over the next drainage or into the next bunch of timber, I personally don't care what I am carrying. If I am starting at the top of 9 Mile Ridge and know it'll likely be 15-20 before I hit camp, I'll drop some lb's to make it easier on myself if it doesn't diminish my effectiveness..

Same goes for heavy scopes that do alot of cool things, but honestly, if I can't kill it with a 6X these days it isn't really the scopes fault. I have some heavy scopes, but they are tradeoffs as well, right along with extra weight in the rifle..

Thank you Scotty, excellent thoughts and answer. In your first post you mentioned stock size and this definitely is something that is important to me and makes a difference for sure. The only lightweight I have worked with I did not like, if seem to produce more recoil and it just did not feel "right" in my hands, wish I could give you a better explanation on "feel right ". We do sometimes travel a fair distance if for no other reason there are no roads,---- atv, snowmobile, canoe, aircraft, dog sled gets us close, but we walk a lot. I also agree with you 100% on the scope comment, in fact as you know I dont use one on the 71, so maybe without a scope my rifle weighs the same as some others with a scope. anyway, thank you so much for your posts and explanation, it is appreciated

 

[Europe]

It is 5 o'clock somewhere---actually that is here, time to relax and have a beverage

I am glad I saw this and will cut right to the core.

Scotty makes excellent points in response to your question, and it is a legitimate question, as not everyone likes the lighter rifles, I don't, Rodger don't, you don't cheyenne, and I will bet there are others, but I also agree with what Scotty said

In your case Cheyenne, you are just like Scottys brother, you are young and so far the extra weight is not that important to you, plus you are in great physical condition, you walk everywhere! You probably walk further each day than some of us do when we go hunting two or three times a year.

Believe me I also understand your point about recoil, and Rodgers point about not being able to shoot the lightweights as well, I agree with you both. But when you get a little older you look for people to carry you and someone else to carry your rifle. There are no wrong answers here, just differences in age and life styles and physical conditions

 

[35 Whelen]

Lol, well I am certainly onboard for having an adult beverage and relaxing! And Cheyenne the next time an old
81 Remington shows up here I am going to put your name on it! I do appreciate what you say about how a heavier gun
Can feel, that's a valid point. However I got to say having lugged my M70 since 1989 and it weighed just over 8lbs,
It didn't take me very long to get used to a Tikka! That only
Weighed about 1 pound less. Let me see, oh probably took at least 10 secs!!!! :mrgreen:
And just for the record, NO; I doubt if a lighter gun would slow you down much ; right now, However we will continue
This conversation in 30 years and I am certain your point
Of view will have softened on heavy rifles somewhat, :lol:
As my old man used to say "it comes to the very best of them"

 

[truck driver]

Well you made me do it so I got the scales out and stepped on them with out and with the M70-35/AI in a B&C Medalist stock with the 3.5-10X44mm 1" scope on it just to see what it really weighs and it comes in at 8.4lbs on a bath room digital scale and it looks like I have lost a few pounds which is a good thing :grin: .
As Earl and April have said yes I do agree with Scotty on the point of having to carry unnecessary weight.
I don't know and won't dig my 30-06 out of the safe but the 22" barreled M77 is lighter than the M70 35/AI and I can carry it for ever it seems like I have when I was Scotty's age and would through a whole white tail buck on my shoulder and walk out 5-6 miles with it to my truck back in the day but won't sling one over my shoulder today because I don't want to get shot. But a 7lb rifle loaded ,scoped and slung is as light as I want in the calibers I hunt with. When the time comes to lighten up I guess I'll opp for shorter barrels and a muzzle break to counter the recoil. I just have trouble holding hard with a light rifle unless it has a extremely light trigger but most or all my triggers are light and you don't touch them before you need to(1 3/4-2 1/2lbs max).

 

[SJB358]

Great points April and others. I have some heavier and some lighter. I have carried my 338 around hill and dale in quite a few places but I am always looking for ways to lighten it up.

Again, stock design comes into play more than weight for me. As I have gotten older I can tell what fits me better and allows me to shoot my best. I can shoot most anything pretty well, but I have gotten to the point that I really like the design on a M70 Sporter which is refined a touch in the Echols Legend stocks..

I also know the typical factory rifle is too short for me. I thought I was a stock crawler, now, I realize at 39 that I just need a longer darned stock!

 

[Africa Huntress]

.

Again, stock design comes into play more than weight for me. As I have gotten older I can tell what fits me better and allows me to shoot my best. I can shoot most anything pretty well, but I have gotten to the point that I really like the design on a M70 Sporter which is refined a touch in the Echols Legend stocks..

Scotty I agree 100% Weight can be and I am sure is a factor, but fit, at least for me is paramount. April is also right in pointing out age and conditioning. Cheyenne does more "conditioning" in her daily life than most of us do on purpose or at a gym for an hour. I travel, a lot, and a gym at a hotel is a must for me. Someone mentioned lets see how Cheyenne would feel in thirty years, but sparing an accident of some kind and in my conversations with Guy Miner and my father, if you work at it, and they both do, one can still be fairly active and strong, even as you age. I dont know if Scotty, still works at it, but I will bet when he left the Corp, he was stronger than many twenty something year olds. I dont think it is strictly about age, but I certainly understand the argument and point being made in regards to age. Again, of course my point is taking any accidents to the body out of the equation.

Now a question for Scotty. As you know or might remember I ordered a new 450/400 double and my question is. If you had the opportunity to chase cape buffalo around all day with it, would you pass because it is too heavy ? LOL Just joking with you Scotty. But, my point is, is everything depends on the circumstances---the person, rifle, hunting opportunity, etc. Scotty, you could just do what mum does and have someone carry the rifle for you until your ready to use it.

Best Regards

Jamila

 

[Guy Miner]

Jamila, good points! At sixty now - I'm not "old" but I'm sure not thirty anymore either!

I enjoy hiking with a rifle along - never know when something might just need shooting! And of course all of us here seem to enjoy hunting. Hunting can be very, very physical. Depending on the terrain, the game, the method of hunting... It can be downright brutal and very demanding.

My most accurate rifles are a little heavier than I enjoy carrying afield. Can I? Sure. Do I want to? No. For hunting I'd rather keep to the weight of a decent "sporter" type rifle. The ultra-lights don't do much for me, I have a tough time shooting them well.

Age & fitness... I'm in better shape now, almost three years after retiring from cop work, than I was the last five years that I worked! The 12 hour shifts were dragging me down. I suffered for several years from pain and weakness/muscle loss all related to needing neck surgery. I just didn't know that I needed the surgery! It's coming up on two years since my surgery - and DANG - I feel great! I'll likely never get back all the strength in my right side, apparently some of the nerves died. Phooey. But am doing pretty well.

Yesterday morning at the gym, my first set of pull-ups? Got sixteeen of them! Max in the USMC fitness test used to be twenty, so I feel pretty good about getting sixteen. Two years ago, I couldn't do a single pull up.

At the gym a few months ago:




Elk hunting, December 2016:


I'm the cyclist with the big ol' arms with two of my lean, fast cycling buddies. One is in his mid 60's, the other in his late 70's and neither has any problem knocking out a "century" in 7 hours or less. Both of them rode the Seattle to Portland 200 mile ride last year - in one day. They inspire me to keep riding and hiking!


I don't run anymore. Too many leg injuries over the years. But my goodness do I hike, snowshoe, Nordic ski and bicycle! Love that stuff. ALL of it! Being active, is a real addiction for me, and a pleasant one. Side effects include FEELING GOOD!

Dang, I'm kind of wandering along here, rambling. That's okay, it's time to abandon the computer for a while, and see about getting some new snowshoes. I think I've out-lived my existing ones, they're kind of falling apart...

Any of you who think you're getting a little old, slow, heavy... And can't hunt hard anymore... At least give it a try - get out and walk, hit the gym, dust off the old bicycle... It might just be fun too...

Regards, Guy

 

[SJB358]

Great post Guy! Love that PT!

J, I would carry anything I could drag to hunt buffalo... :twisted:

 

[35 Whelen]

Guess I should have posted the actual weight of this Patroit rifle with the Z3 it weighes 7 lbs 11ozs. So its a just under the Venture or my old Model 70, but not even close to the Tikka. And at its price point to include fluting of both the barrel and the bolt amazes me.

Guy olde boy, you are something! Really great to see someone taking care of themselves like you do, good on ya
You and I are same age so I have to take my hat off to you. I need to follow your lead as its getting harder to get rid of it every year! Also have to be cautious when your girlfriend is 10 years younger :mrgreen:

 

[truck driver]

So how do you like the Z3?

 

[35 Whelen]

TD,
Interesting question, I have always thought they were good value, and sold a bunch of them back 3/4 years ago and everyone liked them Alot.
However this latest one seams to have some odditys about it, I didnt remember the older ones having. Then I read they are now made in China.......... oh ok. Locking ring on the objective lens still reads GERMANY.
Whats next?... So the short answer is its around VX1 quality, for half price, it is not the same Z3 as it was before. Still good value at the closeout prices, they are all dumping them for at the moment. But not the same glass as the early ones. IMO.
The field of veiw at any power is considerably less than a Sightron S1......... so for woods hunting could not recomend it simply for that reason. :x

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the info E.

 

[SJB358]

Is it a ZV3 or the Z3? The ZV's were/are made in China whereas the Z3's are made overseas in CZ I believe.

I have a bunch of Z3's and Z5's. Once they sorted them out to the newer HD ones I have been pretty happy with them. The older Z3's were like looking through a straw.

 

[DrMike]

Is it a ZV3 or the Z3? The ZV's were/are made in China whereas the Z3's are made overseas in CZ I believe.

I have a bunch of Z3's and Z5's. Once they sorted them out to the newer HD ones I have been pretty happy with them. The older Z3's were like looking through a straw.

Scotty,

The picture clearly shows a ZV3.

 

[SJB358]

Is it a ZV3 or the Z3? The ZV's were/are made in China whereas the Z3's are made overseas in CZ I believe.

I have a bunch of Z3's and Z5's. Once they sorted them out to the newer HD ones I have been pretty happy with them. The older Z3's were like looking through a straw.

Scotty,

The picture clearly shows a ZV3.

Got ya, thanks Mike. I should have checked myself buddy. I like the newer Minox's and they were excellent in replacing the older ones I had and even paid for the shipping both ways. I think I still have one left that needs to be replaced. Something they did with the older ones allowed the eyepieces to jiggle. Drove me insane.. The newer HD ones they replaced them with are very clear and serviceable scopes. Not sure where there prices are these days.

 

[35 Whelen]

Good catch Mike, and Scotty's discription is spot on!