The under-estimated 30-06... :)

[Double Dropper]

I run 25-06, 30-06 and a 35 Whelen, love the case, but for most shots and for 99% of most hunting its 400 yards or less, the comment that its not flat enough is academic, most cant hold that in a hunting situation period, loading a 200 grain ELDX or AccuBond at over 2800 fps (RL-26) its a hammer, shoots flat enough (if I need more, its magnum time) and is easy on the shoulder. So underrated, so tired of the "270 or 280 is flatter" with lighter bullets and less hitting power should be the caveat, handloaded with HI BC bullets, its every bit as flat as most. If I need more power past 400 yards, I dust off the 300 Win Mag.

 

[Guy Miner]

I love my 30-06 but I miss my 25-06. Maybe ole Santa will bring me one in December. Guess I’m an ought-six kinda guy.

TMH


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I suspect that eventually I'll sell off most of my rifles and just keep the 25-06 and 30-06 for hunting and the 22 Marlin 39A for practice. Should do just fine for my purposes.

Guy

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

I love my 30-06 but I miss my 25-06. Maybe ole Santa will bring me one in December. Guess I’m an ought-six kinda guy.

TMH


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I suspect that eventually I'll sell off most of my rifles and just keep the 25-06 and 30-06 for hunting and the 22 Marlin 39A for practice. Should do just fine for my purposes.

Guy

Can't go wrong with those!

Hawk

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[diverdown]

At 76 years of age my train of thought is along the same lines as Guy. I have already lightened my gun cabinet and intend to continue the lightening process. I have a number of firearms I never use anymore and will sell them to hopefully someone who will enjoy them as much as I have. The 06 was my second Deer Rifle and holds a cherished spot that will never go away. Over the years many Deer were taken with that model 700. My 700 has a stainless barrel that has been coated black by the factory. (quite Old) It still shoots lights out. My model 700 titanium in 7-08 rules the roost now and because of its weight is my constant companion in the woods.

 

[Guy Miner]

I remember those old Rem 700's with the black-coated stainless barrels. Had one in 7mm Rem Mag that was a wonderful rifle with an amazingly high grade stock for a factory rifle. I got silly and sold it years ago...

The fellow I sold it to scrapped the stock and barrel and built a tactical 300 Win Mag on it... Gosh... What a waste of a truly beautiful and accurate hunting rifle. Ah well, his rifle, my money.

Guy

 

[preacher]

As a boy, almost every 30-06 I saw was either a stock ( maybe most of the wood cut off) 1917 Enfield and a couple of Mod 740 semis. This was in the Big Thicket of East, Tx and deer are about 90 lbs, a "big buck" might top 140 lbs, ha. The 30-30 was aptly called "The Big Gun" as Mod 94s and a few Mod 336 (the less expensive Glenfields) were prized. When I used the 30-06 a few years later, I hugged the edges of pipeline ROWs and old logging roads, but still ended up never killing either deer or hog past 60yds! ha I found the 150 Corlokt did fine for ribs/lung shots. I later used the 165 SBT and it was even "better", didn't bloodshot alot.

I have to think that in areas where many of you guys grew up/live, where there are longer ranges, bigger deer, elk/moose/bear, the 30-06 was/is a "natural". Having used it myself out here in the past 30 yrs, it is indeed a "good one"!

 

[ShadeTree]

The more I shoot the 06 the more I appreciate it. You can load for deer to hit them like a lightning bolt or load where they're more likely to run 20-30 yds and tip over with minimal meat damage. All the while knowing you got gobs of room to load up without question marks in your mind, to stoutly handle anything in North America.

I ran some numbers just out of curiosity based off what Scotty put up shooting the 212 ELD X.

Compared it to the same bullet in the heaviest weight that Hornady lists for the much lauded 6.5 CM, the 143 ELD X. The 06 of course starts out with the advantage of more frontal area on game, but I wanted to see how it compared in energy and drop.

Used Scotty's speeds for the 212, and used the fastest speed listed by Hodgdon for the 143 ELD X.

Used Hornady's listed B.C. for each bullet and Hornady's ballistic calculator with a 200 yd zero for both.

At 400 yds, as far as most of us will shoot, the 212 out of the 06 has 716 more ft lbs of energy than the 6.5CM. That's a LOT. The big 212 drops a mere .9 of an inch more than the CM.

At 600 yds which dips into the realm of long range IMO, the 06 with the 212 has 593 more ft lbs of energy. Still huge. The big 212 still just shoots 2.2" lower at 600 than the CM.

1000 yds wouldn't interest me, but at 1000 yds the 06 has 400 more ft lbs of energy. 399 to be exact. Also at 1000 yds that big bone crushing bullet is shooting just 5" lower than the CM.

Impressive I thought.

 

[Guy Miner]

That is impressive. Thanks for checking all that.

Dang.

 

[clearwater]

"1000 yds that big bone crushing bullet is shooting just 5" lower than the CM. "

5" at 1000 yards isn't something mere mortals can hold anyway.

 

[SJB358]

That is impressive. Thanks for checking all that.

Dang.

Yeah, it is something how the newer powders and bullets really help the old warhorses get even better.

The funnier part about energy and such is comparing the 180 Partition from a 300 Win at 3050 to the same 212 ELD load.

No one in his right mind would ever consider the big 300 Win lacking while the 212 ELD and similar bullets really start to make the old 300 Win look silly as the range increases.

 

[Guy Miner]

I think it was in the 1970's reading the articles in a Sierra loading manual, that I started understanding the magic of long, heavy, boat-tailed bullets.

Sierra had a great explanation, and of course lots of data to peruse. So I did.

Muzzle velocity is but one part of the story. Of course now all the major makers produce slick, boat-tailed bullets that work so well.

Guy

 

[HAWKEYESATX]

Well, I do know several millennials that underestimate the .30-06, and what it has done, and will continue to do as a hunting, and even a long range target shooter. Their "death ray" 6.5mm Creedmoor, when loaded with sleek bullets, can only beat the '06 only in less drop at distances. They underestimate the savvy hunter, or target shooter who knows how to hand load, and use bullets that have as much BC as their 6.5mm.
Also, and I am embarrassed to say, when I was much younger, and had less knowledge, I was a staunch magnum user, and would brag that anything the '06 can do, mine could do as well, and more. There are still a lot of magnum rifle proponents out there that still do the same thing as I did.
A lot of people have underestimated the '06, but it is still the bench mark that all cartridges are judged by, like it or not.
I have heard a lot of things about the '06, but I have never heard that the .30-06 is marginal, or inadequate for anything on this continent. Hell, it can even handle most of what Africa has to offer, and that's quite admirable for one cartridge.
Yes, the old bullets in .30 cal were short, and stubby, and at the time had quite respectable BC's, and SD's.
The Younger crowd will try and dazzle you with their 6.5 and it's sleekness, and how flat it shoots. Well, the winds of change are coming for the .30-06, and I have a feeling, that .30 cal bullets will end up being as high in BC's, without having overly heavy bullets.
It's only right that .30 cal bullets benefit from bullet technology, and I think we will see a resurgence of using the grand ol' .30-06.
The winds of change are a blowin'!
Don't underestimate a cartridge that is as old as the '06. It's been around for over a century for good reason. It just plain works, and not just that, it works very well on 90% of the game animals on this planet.

Hawk

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[mjcmichigan]

Maybe they will give it a facelift .. lengthen the bullet seating spec so it’s easier to load long skinny bullets... leave the rest of the case alone..

We could call it the 30.06 LR or 30.06 CM, or 30.06Mag?

Wouldn’t be surprised to find out Hornady is working on it...

They’ve been pretty active lots of new products...


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[ShadeTree]

An 06 is not a magnum and never will be. A magnum comes with it's own benefits, but at the cost of other things. So yes what an 06 can do, a 300 WM as example can do better/farther. It wouldn't be fair to the 06 to argue differently. I'd only argue the benefit to the average hunter.

The strength of the 06 in my view is that it rides very easily in cruise control at the crest of the hill between some of the smaller cartridge screamers, and the heavier magnums. A space it really hasn't been kicked out of since it's inception. It can quite comfortably be steered either direction to accomplish much of the same things. All from the same rifle.


In reloading terms, it has a wide node.


It accomplishes this in a standard sporter rifle with a 22-24" barrel. It doesn't give up much with a 22" barrel. Stays under what is reasonably tolerable recoil to the average person without going to long barrels and muzzle brakes.

If not loaded over pressure or repeatedly shot with a hot barrel, it is very easy on both brass and barrels. On par or equal to the 308 in my opinion.

A lot of good cartridges out there and I enjoy all I've shot and wouldn't knock them. The 06 sits in a spot and accomplishes things that makes it a really nice cartridge in my view. One of the greats when it came out, and still is today.

 

[SJB358]

An 06 is not a magnum and never will be. A magnum comes with it's own benefits, but at the cost of other things. So yes what an 06 can do, a 300 WM as example can do better/farther. It wouldn't be fair to the 06 to argue differently. I'd only argue the benefit to the average hunter.

The strength of the 06 in my view is that it rides very easily in cruise control at the crest of the hill between some of the smaller cartridge screamers, and the heavier magnums. A space it really hasn't been kicked out of since it's inception. It can quite comfortably be steered either direction to accomplish much of the same things. All from the same rifle.


In reloading terms, it has a wide node.


It accomplishes this in a standard sporter rifle with a 22-24" barrel. It doesn't give up much with a 22" barrel. Stays under what is reasonably tolerable recoil to the average person without going to long barrels and muzzle brakes.

If not loaded over pressure or repeatedly shot with a hot barrel, it is very easy on both brass and barrels. On par or equal to the 308 in my opinion.

A lot of good cartridges out there and I enjoy all I've shot and wouldn't knock them. The 06 sits in a spot and accomplishes things that makes it a really nice cartridge in my view. One of the greats when it came out, and still is today.

I’d buy that! Well said ST. It’s probably why I overlook it 99% of the time :mrgreen:

 

[ShadeTree]

An 06 is not a magnum and never will be. A magnum comes with it's own benefits, but at the cost of other things. So yes what an 06 can do, a 300 WM as example can do better/farther. It wouldn't be fair to the 06 to argue differently. I'd only argue the benefit to the average hunter.

The strength of the 06 in my view is that it rides very easily in cruise control at the crest of the hill between some of the smaller cartridge screamers, and the heavier magnums. A space it really hasn't been kicked out of since it's inception. It can quite comfortably be steered either direction to accomplish much of the same things. All from the same rifle.


In reloading terms, it has a wide node.


It accomplishes this in a standard sporter rifle with a 22-24" barrel. It doesn't give up much with a 22" barrel. Stays under what is reasonably tolerable recoil to the average person without going to long barrels and muzzle brakes.

If not loaded over pressure or repeatedly shot with a hot barrel, it is very easy on both brass and barrels. On par or equal to the 308 in my opinion.

A lot of good cartridges out there and I enjoy all I've shot and wouldn't knock them. The 06 sits in a spot and accomplishes things that makes it a really nice cartridge in my view. One of the greats when it came out, and still is today.

I’d buy that! Well said ST. It’s probably why I overlook it 99% of the time :mrgreen:

Ha! I don't think you're overlooking it anymore based on the results you've put up with it. :mrgreen:

Those same type bullets would of course also extend the range of a 300WM, albeit with substantially more powder. But the 06 can already carry the payload farther than most of us would be comfortable shooting.

 

[Guy Miner]

The fellow who was on the cow elk hunt with me in 2016 shoots a 338 Win Mag with Barnes TSX 225's. He ranged the elk at about 340 yards and said something like "since you're shooting a 30-06, you'll need to aim above the back."

I nodded, disregarded his advice, and shot. The 165 Ballistic tip actually broke the shoulder blade and destroyed the lungs. It broke the off-side shoulder blade too but I didn't find any exit wound. Never recovered the bullet, I figure it came out with the lungs during field dressing.

He didn't understand that my particular 30-06 load was shooting flatter than his particular 338 Win Mag load.

He had a 225 TSX at about 2830 fps, BC of .386

I had a 165 Ballistic Tip at about 2940 fps (might have been 2970 fps then, earlier lot of powder) and a BC of .475

My 30-06 was shooting a little flatter than his 338 Win mag! Higher velocity, slicker bullet. Bullet choice is important.

BTW, despite the quick kill, I think I'd go with the 165 AccuBond, 168 E-Tip, or back to the good ol' 165 Partition for elk. If I'd had a closer shot with higher impact velocity, I don't know if the bullet would have performed as well. It did do real well for me that season with elk, bear, mule deer & antelope though.

Regards, Guy

 

[PJGunner]

Guy, a few years back the scope on my .35 Whelen turned toes up on be and I used my 30-06 running the 165 gr. AccuBond. Bullet hit the cow elk in the short ribs and angled on into the left lung. The elk went maybe 30 yard. We never did recover the bullet and I suspect it ended up in the mess it made of her left lung. An example one one doesn't mean much but I would not hesitate to use that same load on elk again.
Paul B.

 

[Guy Miner]

Ya, that's the problem with a lot of us, I've only shot two elk. I know that in each case the bullet & rifle worked well, but... It's only two elk.

Though, I can't imagine a 165 AccuBond from a 30-06 not being a good choice for elk. :grin:

Guy

 

[Double Dropper]

Played around last weekend with RL-26 and 180 grain accubonds, boy do they group and 2850 out of my 22" barrel. Nice to shoot recoil wise and easy to load for, I bought another rifle just because I love to play with the caliber, a friend plays with Bergers and its every bit as flat as a Needsmore with high BC bullets, its still impressive.