Things I need to improve on...

[wisconsinteacher]

I know I need to improve at the reloading and shooting bench. I need to work on weighing brass, setting up my resizing dies (I need to get some of the Hornady or RCBS lock rings and install them so the dies are set up the same every time), getting more consistant at having the same contact pressure and placement when shooting, and finding the best time to take a rifle and really deep clean it to get the best accuracy from it. Any tips to help me out? One thing I am going to add to my shooting system is a chronograph. I will have one by next season.

 

[AzDak42]

I think before we talk about tips, it would be helpful to know more about what you're trying to accomplish.

For example, I've been able to shoot sub-moa without weighing premium hunting or match bullets or brass. For the sorts of shooting I do, the added expense of having to buy so much more brass and so many more bullets in order to have enough in each weight category, makes it daunting and expensive.

Where are you seeing the problem areas you want to resolve?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I think my biggest issue is having a group of brass, bullets, powder measured out and very close but when I weigh the finished round there is a difference in weight that does not make sense. My goal is to shoot 1 moa or less with all of my rifles. So far, my 22-250 is the closest and I really feel that by the end of next summer I will have it consitantly going under 1" at 100. I guess what I am trying to get is better at being consistant and have better rounds and groups. I also want to use my time wisely when reloading and shooting.

 

[Wincheringen]

Do you have a digital scale? That will make it a lot easier and faster to precisely weigh whatever you want to weigh.

I don't shoot competitively with the rifle, so I don't worry about weighing bullets or brass. I'm not sure it would help too much with shotshells.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I do have a digital scale. It is a Hornady. I like it and I try my best to use it inside away from drafts. I also use the plastic cover for every charge. I think it has helped a lot on my charges. Sometimes I do recheck charged cases and they will weigh different from the original weight. I need to remember to rezero more often.

 

[338 Ultra]

Well there is a lot of stuff you can do that may work and there is a lot of stuff you can do that won't work. If you are chasing accuracy I would be more inclined to tweek the rifle than weigh brass and such. This could be a bedding job and a free floated barrel or a quality aftermarket barrel chambered and fitted by a good gunsmith and a good trigger is a must no matter what you do or do not do to the rifle. I have one such rifle and because of the platform it shoots very well with anything I put through it. Macmillan stock aluminium bedding block heavy varmint contour stainless fluted barrel floated and timiny trigger, lapped lugs everything squared and true. Lots of bucks and it is impressive when shooting groups on paper but it does not kill anything any deader than one of my plain old hunting rifles not that I can tell anyway and weighs a whole bunch more. I used to fret over reloading like the benchrest guys do looking for that extra one million'th of an inch perhaps that is the real reason my hair fell out :shock: So you could spend a fair bit of money on reloading gear or you could spend the same on some rifle improvements the choice is yours though.

What load are you shooting in that 22-250 right now? ( bullet brass powder primer and such) perhaps a simple powder change might get you to where you need to be or a primer or a bullet.What rifle mfg is your 22-250?

 

[dlove]

I don't have a vast knowledge of reloading for rifles but all my rifles are shooting under .5" at 100. they are mostly cheap rifles like marlin X7 and even a single shot h&r. I just kept changing recipes until I found what they wanted to shoot. I don't weigh brass. I have never weighed the loaded rounds.

I think glass makes a huge difference in precision shooting. all my rifles have either nikon monarch or zeiss glass. you can ruin a great rifle's potential with a cheap scope or you can give a cheap rifle potential with a good scope.

 

[JD338]

I don't have a vast knowledge of reloading for rifles but all my rifles are shooting under .5" at 100. they are mostly cheap rifles like marlin X7 and even a single shot h&r. I just kept changing recipes until I found what they wanted to shoot. I don't weigh brass. I have never weighed the loaded rounds.

I think glass makes a huge difference in precision shooting. all my rifles have either nikon monarch or zeiss glass. you can ruin a great rifle's potential with a cheap scope or you can give a cheap rifle potential with a good scope.

+1

I do not weigh my components, other than powder and all my rifles shoot well under MOA.
All bullets were Nosler seconds and R-P brass.
Shot these groups from the 338 RUM last weekend.

This one from the 6.5mm Rem Mag

JD338

 

[300WSM]

So many things to talk about here....but here are a few...
I never weigh brass. NEVER. I'm only concerned with the health of the brass. For every brass case you have differing in weight you will have ...and more importantly than brass....the bullets...even from our beloved Nosler can vary just a little bit. The ignition of all of it is the most important part.

Finding the best powder and primer combo is the key. Overall length plays a part too, but if you load every one to a conservative seating depth, but you load them exactly the same length....and find that powder primer combo you can sub one inch in almost any rifle. Using a digital scale that is calibrated is a must.

Another question is this...how long are you waiting between shots. Heat on the bbl can distort a shot just enough to get outside of one inch.

Glass can impact your goal as well.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Weighing brass is only important if you're shooting at extended rages...past 600 yards...and if you're doing that...weigh the bullets too.

The big reason for weighing brass (and bullets) is to keep the ES and SD numbers low...for accurate drop data, you need consistent velocity...bullet seating and neck tension also play a major role in consistent velocity.

You can have MOA ammo (at 100 yards) thats truly all over the place in velocity...because at 100 yards it hasn't gone far enough for the velocity difference to show itself...this is one of the reasons behind those posts you sometimes see saying "My groups are great at 100 yards but at 300 I get vertical stringing".

In my opinion...if you want truly consistent accuracy...you need truly consistent ammo...I do weigh brass, and bullets, and every charge of powder.

EDITED TO ADD: Some powders are more forgiving than others where brass weight (case capacity) is concerned

 

[usmc 89]

I agree with the above post 100%. I load to around 1/2 moa at 100 with a target standard deviation of 10 fps or less. I could care less about a bug hole at 100 yards. what I am looking for is consistent moa or less accuracy out to 1k. if you have a rifle and a guy capable of shooting 1-1.5 moa accuracy your going to see him win a pile of matches.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Here are some chrono results I got a while back...checking to see the velocity difference in warm weather was the reason for this shot string (H4350 powder on a nice 80 degree day)

2,873
2,861
2,861
2,873
2,855
2,861
2,855


ES is 18......SD is 7...2,862 fps average.

FWIW...the cool weather test (done last winter...at 30 degrees, same lot of powder)...ES was 12, SD was 6...average velocity was 2,855 fps.

Now this is a Pro Chrono Digital chronograph...not the best unit out there, but using these numbers did put me right on the $$$ at 300 yards...which is the farthest I've shot this rifle so far...gave me the true BC of the 168 grain BT, which is .475

P.S. I have the cold weather shot string data somewhere on this computer...but I can't seem to locate it right now...musta misfiled it somewhere :? I remember the SD, ES, and average...but can't recall the shot string.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

And another thing...something I've posted on lately on another forum.

There is no real need to spend north of $100 for fancy reloading dies (competition dies)...I borrowed a set (Redding), used them long enough to get used to them and learn the quirks (all dies have quirks)...and the ammo produced was no more accurate than ammo I loaded with a $30 set of Lee deluxe dies...came out exactly the same...that does not include the Redding neck sizers though, those are worth the $$$ for those that neck size...I full length size my ammo, tried neck sizing too, didn't care for it...didn't really see the point, the ammo wasn't any more accurate...at least not enough that I could measure it with calipers....but those bushing dies would be useful for custom chambers.

Scales...I use a digital scale to weigh loaded rounds, brass, or bullets...they're good for that...but I wouldn't give 2 cents for one to weigh powder charges with...thats my opinion of them, others may vary...you know how it is with opinions, LOL...I weigh the powder on a 505, gravity is constant...unaffected by lights, electricity, etc...the only thing that makes that 505 move around is the air moving (such as when the heat pump kicks on)...at which time I stop until it goes back off.

Case prep...the dividends are small, but little things add up...proper trimming and hole deburring is a worthwhile adventure.

Powder selection...I know some of yall disagree, but temp sensitive powders will have a negative impact on accuracy...simply because they have a negative impact on consistency. You won't notice it at 100 yards, you'll probably even be OK shooting deer at 300 yards...but the inconsistency is still there, you just haven't seen it yet...add some distance, and it will eventually show itself.

Scope reticle...the thinner the better, but don't go overboard...you still have to be able to see it in those minutes before sunrise and after sunset.

PARALLAX, in bold because it is all too often overlooked and/or misunderstood...this is what gets a lot of shooters, their rifle and ammo may be fine...the problem is that they don't get behind the scope the same way every time. If your scope has a parallax adjustment (whether adjustable objective or side focus), learn how to use it (thats probably best in a thread of its own)...if your scope doesn't have a parallax adjustment you MUST master the cheek weld...the cheek weld on a rifle is the same as the kisser button on a bow...its your reference point, without it...you just don't know exactly where the crosshair is, regardless of where it appears to be...your cheek weld has to be the same every time, ALWAYS.

Am I an expert? Heck no...not by any means!

The above is just a few ramblings on what has worked for me...

 

[wisconsinteacher]

Thanks for the tips and info. As of now, I have shot 5 or 6 3 shot groups with my 22-250 using 55 Vmax, Win brass, IMR 4064, and Fed 210 primers. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I thing the 5 groups average under .8 so I am very happy with that. My goal is to get my 30-06 around 1" and my 6.5 Grendel around .75" Those are goals that I have. I was just sitting at the bench last night trying to think of ways to be better. I am a little competitive and want to be the best at what I do. The day I stop learning about the things I enjoy in life I will give all my toys away and crawl in a hole. Again, thanks for the info keep it coming because I know there are others out there that are always learning new tricks.

 

[AzDak42]

Just a quick question sir...

You mentioned having a Hornady digital scale, do you mean the Bench version or the little flip top scale you get in the L-N-L single stage press kit?

I started out with the RCBS powder feed + scale combo and the LNL kit. Out of curiosity one day, I spent about an hour trying to get the little Hornady to give me consistent results. That little scale is a flaming piece of garbage. The same powder charge, validated on my RCBS, and weighed multiple times on the Hornady, gave me a huge variation in results each time it went onto that scale. As far as I could tell, the little bugger just spit out a random number. (And I'm not hating on Horandy, I run their dies and press exclusively.)

After that experience, I'd run my check weights onto the pan every 2-3 loads, just to see where it's at. I have to wonder if you're not getting a substantial variation in your powder charge.

A few other thoughts...
- When I first started, I wasn't using any lube inside the neck, and I found that I was really having to muscle the brass into the sizing die. This meant I was using a less consistent smooth stroke on the press arm, which probably lead to some variation in neck tension. After moving to graphite, I'm certain it made a difference. (Thanks to some advice here, I've got a few batches to test out using the imperial sizing wax on a q-tip, and man it worked slick. The mess of graphite may be a thing of the past.)
- In that same vein, I previously ran my scale on my bench with my press. I was getting a fair number of overthrows. I would have the powder charge coming out while I seated the bullet on the press from the previous charge. I found that my overcharge/variation in charges went way down when I moved my powder scale and measure off to a table next to my bench. No action from the press to slightly jiggle the scale.

It will come together mate, just give it time.

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I have the Lock-n-load bench scale. I do not lube inside the neck. I need to work on that. As of now, I charge my cases inside and then go to the press to load my bullets.

 

[300WSM]

Hornady one shot lube.....wonderful stuff. Give a bunch of cases a couple of sprays and you are good to go.

Something to note from what someone posted, electric scales need to be on a circuit with no surges whatsoever. That can give false readings. Example of this is like when you have something turn on,,,and you notice a light bulb goes dim...even if for a brief bit....that type of thing can play havoc on the electric scale

 

[Oldtrader3]

I don't have a vast knowledge of reloading for rifles but all my rifles are shooting under .5" at 100. they are mostly cheap rifles like marlin X7 and even a single shot h&r. I just kept changing recipes until I found what they wanted to shoot. I don't weigh brass. I have never weighed the loaded rounds.

I think glass makes a huge difference in precision shooting. all my rifles have either nikon monarch or zeiss glass. you can ruin a great rifle's potential with a cheap scope or you can give a cheap rifle potential with a good scope.

You must have a magic touch, because I have been reloading for 50 years and have one possible 1/2 MOA rifle, none of the others are cheap rifles and all have been gone through in order to be true MOA rifles. I am calling the Bull card on this one..

 

[dlove]

I'm not saying they will do that all day long, every day. they have all shot under .5". the next group may be .8 or .9 but I don't know if that is the rifle or the idiot on the trigger.

 

[dlove]

pulled a few targets off the bench. I may be incorrect saying these rifles will shoot under .5" by normal standards. I wouldn't say they are 1/2MOA rifles because they may or may not shoot that well all the time. I think they certainly shoot well for bone stock rifles with with my (low) ammount of skill on the triggers.

the rifles are a Marlin XL7S .270 ($419) with a 3.5-10x50 nikon monarch UCC, a marlin XS7 7mm-08($359) with a nikon monarch 3-9x40, and a H&R .35 Whelen($265) with a Zeiss conquest 3-9x50/german #4