- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,344
- 3,185
1911 fellas or at least the HK USP 45 acp
US Army considers 3 Glock models to replace M9.
- Thread starter CMBTshooter
- Start date
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
I have to admit that I am a revolver person. Yeah I carried a 1911 for 3 years in the Army and owned two Kimbers which I traded for USFA revolvers. Mostly, I have owned S&W revolvers. As a result, I have not kept up with the zillions of semi auto pistols out there. I also have owned a Browning Hgh Power, a couple of classic Walthers (PPK/PPKS) and a Luger. None of these are even close to being in contention, so I shoud not be giving advice on what our servicemen should carry.
300WSM
Handloader
- Dec 24, 2011
- 962
- 577
That is awesome.
I never thought in a million years that COLT would be given a serious chance at a contract of a new platform.
They have been on such financial roller coaster ride for a long time and that is the reason I never thought they would get a legit chance on this. Good for them. Good for everyone to hear it was handed to a genuine U.S. company.
I was just looking at a few articles while I was posting this and it appears there is a retired Marine Lt. General who is still on the board there. He was the CEO at one point. Maybe there was in fact some bias in the decision but so what. It won't mark the first time or the last time a bias is a factor.
Good for Colt.
I never thought in a million years that COLT would be given a serious chance at a contract of a new platform.
They have been on such financial roller coaster ride for a long time and that is the reason I never thought they would get a legit chance on this. Good for them. Good for everyone to hear it was handed to a genuine U.S. company.
I was just looking at a few articles while I was posting this and it appears there is a retired Marine Lt. General who is still on the board there. He was the CEO at one point. Maybe there was in fact some bias in the decision but so what. It won't mark the first time or the last time a bias is a factor.
Good for Colt.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,344
- 3,185
Please not more glocks out here. The world is ugly enough!!!
MARSOC (Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command) will get the Colt made 1911's. We have carried 1911's for quite awhile as Mortis mentioned and even a few other folks in the Marine Corps maintained a bunch of WWII 1911's. Granted, they were built from the ground up at the Precision Weapons Shop on Quantico, but they were basically the same gun.
When the Marine Corps formed, Marine Corps Spec Ops Command, Det One in 2003, we had Kimber build our Det's pistols. That was the best 1911 I have had to date. Excellent pistol, accurate, and very reliable.
No USSOF unit will ever carry the same pistol as it's sister command. You will never get a Green Beret, Marine, or SEAL to agree on what the best pistol is, or heck, rifle for that matter!
Even some of the other folks with the US Rangers carry Glocks right now, but it isn't across the board at all.
To ditch the M9 would take a whole lotta doing. I hate it, it is about the EASIEST pistol in the world to shoot, but just ugly and not very robust.
I wouldn't balk at a Glock, but really, anything but a 9mm would be excellent. Again, that will never happen, not with the country in combat operations, the logistics of a whole nother bunch of ammo would be disastrous.
Here is a great example. Our team got into a good fight, Southern AFG a few years ago, after the gunfight was finished, we requested resupply, water, ammo, chow, etc.. Well, since we belonged to an Army command at the time, they dropped us water, 5.56 and about 1 gazillion 9mm rounds.. WELL, we have nothing that needs a 9mm, but that is all the Army really uses, so they assumed that is what we had. They dropped the pallet, we in turn, blew it in place as we didn't have capacity in our trucks to take it back. We worked out our pallets a little better for the next run, but you can see the problem on a broad scale.
Wasn't a big deal really, we never took the 45's from the holster to deplete the ammo, but the point is, BIG ARMY runs the war and to supply a small contingent of Marines is fairly easy with 45, but if they had to ramp up to 45 or 40 cal, it would take years. There are bunkers stuffed to gills with ammo, all over the world, should we switch to another ammo, it would take years to get to the same point.
I am not a politician nor logisitician, but I gotta think, changing up from the 9mm which is a NATO round and available worldwide would be tough. I want it as bad as the next guy though. 9mm Hardball is just about worthless for killing folks.
When the Marine Corps formed, Marine Corps Spec Ops Command, Det One in 2003, we had Kimber build our Det's pistols. That was the best 1911 I have had to date. Excellent pistol, accurate, and very reliable.
No USSOF unit will ever carry the same pistol as it's sister command. You will never get a Green Beret, Marine, or SEAL to agree on what the best pistol is, or heck, rifle for that matter!
Even some of the other folks with the US Rangers carry Glocks right now, but it isn't across the board at all.
To ditch the M9 would take a whole lotta doing. I hate it, it is about the EASIEST pistol in the world to shoot, but just ugly and not very robust.
I wouldn't balk at a Glock, but really, anything but a 9mm would be excellent. Again, that will never happen, not with the country in combat operations, the logistics of a whole nother bunch of ammo would be disastrous.
Here is a great example. Our team got into a good fight, Southern AFG a few years ago, after the gunfight was finished, we requested resupply, water, ammo, chow, etc.. Well, since we belonged to an Army command at the time, they dropped us water, 5.56 and about 1 gazillion 9mm rounds.. WELL, we have nothing that needs a 9mm, but that is all the Army really uses, so they assumed that is what we had. They dropped the pallet, we in turn, blew it in place as we didn't have capacity in our trucks to take it back. We worked out our pallets a little better for the next run, but you can see the problem on a broad scale.
Wasn't a big deal really, we never took the 45's from the holster to deplete the ammo, but the point is, BIG ARMY runs the war and to supply a small contingent of Marines is fairly easy with 45, but if they had to ramp up to 45 or 40 cal, it would take years. There are bunkers stuffed to gills with ammo, all over the world, should we switch to another ammo, it would take years to get to the same point.
I am not a politician nor logisitician, but I gotta think, changing up from the 9mm which is a NATO round and available worldwide would be tough. I want it as bad as the next guy though. 9mm Hardball is just about worthless for killing folks.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
One thing that I do understand is logistics and that will most likely drive the solution because the supply chain is clogged with 9mm ammunition. Vendors will not want to retool and requalify with TQM through implementing a new Quality Plan for a new round of ammunition with all of the SPC requalification and everything else involved. So, a mediocre pistol round will persevere because the French and Germans want it for NATO.
Maybe the Marines, being a smaller service can go ahead with keeping the .45 Auto since you already have many units deployed and using it? Wistful thinking but maybe more solid reasoning could be applied to the Marines, being expeditionary forces and all?
Maybe the Marines, being a smaller service can go ahead with keeping the .45 Auto since you already have many units deployed and using it? Wistful thinking but maybe more solid reasoning could be applied to the Marines, being expeditionary forces and all?
Oldtrader3":1qt0hby2 said:
A small portion will get .45's, but it is unlikely the Marine Corps will do much with a pistol. As Mortis put it, it is really a last resort sorta weapon and they will likely field a new rifle before they totally change out the pistol.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 6
The armed services have always treated sidearms as a "last resort" instead of an potent offensive weapon. Maybe the Generals need to change their thinking and arm our troops with the best offensive pistol that they can find. The hell with logistics and being like NATO. Where has that gotten us, we have fought one police action with Nato in my lifetime. All of the other wars did not play by the NATO rules or tactics game in any fashoin especially in carry weapons.
I carry a sidearm with the full expectation that it is going to serve my needs to protect me and not fail me, anything else is unacceptable!
I carry a sidearm with the full expectation that it is going to serve my needs to protect me and not fail me, anything else is unacceptable!
Cleburne
Beginner
- Nov 28, 2012
- 14
- 0
Go back to the 1911' s or start using the Glock 21.
