US M1 Carbine a deer rifle?

[roysclockgun]

On another List, where we discuss Collector and Relic firearms, the argument is raging, regarding whether the US M1 Carbine, firing the standard .30 Carbine round with a soft point, is a viable deer rifle, or not.
I was surprised to hear when hunting in Montana, that any centerfire cartridge is legal to use to hunt ELK!! My guide claimed to have taken a fair number of ELK, using a rifle chambered in 22-250. That said, is the Carbine with the ammo mentioned above suitable for deer hunting within 100 yards, or as I believe, would using that combination simply create a lot of wounded deer who would run off and suffer dying after much pain?
If you agree that the US Carbine would be effective for deer, what is your pet load?
Best,
Steven

 

[DrMike]

Fairly anemic for elk. Too many hunters believe that if their rifle makes a loud noise, it will work for game. I do believe that the vast majority of hunters overestimate their abilities in the field.

 

[ScreaminEagle]

I would never shoot at an elk with a 22 cal unless it was ten yards away and I shot it in the head. That being said my grandmother has shot many a deer with a 22 hornet before she got her 6mm. She only shot them within 100 yards in the head. To answer your question I believe that the bullet from an M1 carbine is fine on deer within 100 yards. You just gotta be able to hit the vitals. With that gun it may be hard. They weren't know for being tack drivers.

 

[JD338]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Use a bigger gun for deer hunting.

JD338

 

[C.Smith]

Is the 30carbine comparable to the 30-30 in power?

Corey

 

[Greg Nolan]

Without looking up the specific data I believe the 30 carbine shoots a 110 gr. bullet at about 1900 fps and a 30-30 shoots a 150 gr. bullet at about 2300 fps. The 30-30 is considerably more powerful.

 

[1Shot]

I would want to close the distance down to 50 yards myself with the 30 carbine. But yes IF everything is perfect, broadside shot with a rifle accurate enough to place the bullet into the heart lung area and stay away from the shoulder bone. Yes the 30 carbine will kill deer but it would not be my first choice for the job. I have a m1 carbine and have shot a couple groundhogs with 110 WW HP ammo and it does about the same damage as a 110 HP from my 6" 357 Mag pistol.

An old WWII Marine that was in college with me, he was about 60 at the time, hated the 30 carbine. He was issued one and on his first combat it almost got him killed. He said they were sent to this small Island that has and outpost on it that needed taking out before the invasion of one of the near by larger islands. He said that when they hit the beach these japs came running out of the jungle at them. He said all he saw was green teeth and a bayonet that looked 3 feet long coming at him. He started shooting quickly and he knew that he was hitting the jap in the chest because he could see dust and cloth flying off him. He kept on coming so he dropped his aim down and shot him in the legs and put him down. When all the shooting was over he checked him and counted 10 hits in the chest. One of his fellow Marines had gotten killed and he was carrying a Thompson Sub-gun. He said that he took his m1 carbine up to a palm tree and held it by the barrel and beat it to pieces then gathered what was left and pitched it into the sea. He picked up the Thompson and carried it the rest of the war and he said that he never had trouble putting a jap down QUICKLY with it.

 

[roysclockgun]

In my original post, starting this thread, I did mention that the discussion was among people who collect "Collector and Relic" pieces and most of them hold C&RFFL. I hold an 01FFL. There was one fellow in that discussion who threw out the idea that he wanted to hunt deer with his US M1 Carbine, but had not yet done so. As sometimes happens, he got flamed, which I am glad to say, I have not seen happen here. The concensus was there, as it is here, not to use a 30 Carbine round on deer, even though under ideal conditions, it will kill deer. That is also my personal position. If one is going to go to all the effort of hunting deer, then "use enough gun!"
Many people have forgotten the history of the US Carbine. By 1940 the combat handguns of the US Military were aging and they were looking for a replacement. A fair number of recruits could hit nothing with the M1911 45ACP, so that was factored into the decision to replace ALL handguns used by land forces, with a carbine. Many companies entered models of their carbine into the competition, but Winchester won and the US M1 Carbine was born. At the same time, war clouds were approaching that would draw the USA into the war that was raging in Europe. Not enough Carbines could possibly be produced to replace all handguns being used by the US Military, so the handguns were NOT removed from service, but instead, Carbines were in many cases, issued in the place of handguns. Plus, the move was made to put more Carbines in the hands of front line combat troops. They in my opinion, should have never carried a Carbine in the place of an M1 Rifle, or M1903 Rifle, but in the rush to arm millions of men, that is what happened. Numerous stories circulate about how the Carbine did not serve well in place of a rifle and I have to agree with that. However, in most all cases, the Carbine did serve better than would have a handgun, for which it was designed to replace. (On the other List, the discussion still rages!) <8^))
Thanks to all who responded here.
Best,
Steven

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I wouldn't do it by choice.
One of my favorite stories is about a guy that took a .30 carbine Cape Buffalo hunting.
The Buffalo won.

 

[russ808]

A.S.
Never heard that story, but I bet that left a mark.
Russ

 

[Woodycreek]

I have a couple of M1 Carbines and they stay in the safe most of the time. I watched one my buddies in the hunting club finish a wounded deer with one. He should have just used his shotgun Every now and then they go to the range with me since they are fun to plink with.

 

[corbin9191]

I would use a bigger gun than the 30 carbine for deer hunting. Better be safe than sorry, plus it is more ethical to use a bigger rifle.

 

[Bigfoot]

I've read good things about the CorBon DPX load.

"Likewise, the Corbon DPX load penetrates 18.9" and expands to 0.56" in bare gelatin."

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19956

Sounds like it would fully penetrate on a broadside shot at fairly close range.

Real neat little gun. Too bad they built it around a handgun style cartridge though.

 

[1Shot]

If they would have built the M1 carbine around the 351 Winchester round they would have had something.

 

[Bigfoot]

Or shortened up the 276 Pedersen. We could have had something a lot like the 6.8 SPC for carbines during WW2 and skipped right over the 7.62x51 and the 5.56.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Never heard that story, but I bet that left a mark.
Russ


Yea, it killed him dead.
Guy got hungup on the Buff horns, and he was stuck there for several days as the buff ran around...

 

[JD338]

Never heard that story, but I bet that left a mark.
Russ


Yea, it killed him dead.
Guy got hungup on the Buff horns, and he was stuck there for several days as the buff ran around...

Bummer.
I bet he won't pull that stunt again!

JD338

 

[tecumseh]

My Dad's a Korean war vet told me he's seen several North Korean soldiers hit with a 30 carbine that the bullets just bounced off them and wouldn't penetrate their winter clothing. I'd be weary about using one myself?

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

My Uncle also carried on in Korea. He was hit twice, and both times he had hit the guy in the chest first with his .30 carbine. On his second trip back to get patched up, a Supply SGT "turned his back" while he traded it in for a Tommy Gun. He never had trouble with them not going down after that.