Weatherby rounds' case stretch?

[350JR]

A quickie question for those having loaded for any of the Weatherby rounds.

Does the shoulder style these rounds have result in more or less case stretch than the standard 25-30 degree shoulders? Or have you even noticed a difference at all?

Also, any reasons you would or would not use such for a wildcat round?

Thank you once again for sharing your findings.

God Bless

 

[Oldtrader3]

My observation with the .340 Bee is that they stretch more than conventional magnum cases.

 

[FOTIS]

yup!

 

[Dr. Vette]

Interesting. I have not had the 7mm Wby cases in Dad's rifle stretch at all. I recently measured some before I loaded them for the 3rd or 4th time, and they measured virtually the same length as on Day 1.

I'm not sure, other than a 6.5 made from a 257 or 270 or the more common 7mm-300, what type of wildcat you would want to make from a Weatherby that isn't similar to what Roy originally made.

 

[rodell]

I've had minimal stretch in 257 and 300 loadings. I typically run at book max, too..

I think a 6.5 Weatherby is in my future. I would use the 257/270 case, I think the 300 would be more over bore than I want (but would be a screamer).

 

[Rigbymauser]

I have had a minimum stretch on my .270 cases. Just enough for the case trimmer to be useful.

 

[Elkman]

No more stretch than any other over bore cases, they all stretch a little, and my experience shows that the hotter you load the faster they wear out.

 

[skidmark]

My observation with the .340 Bee is that they stretch more than conventional magnum cases.

I will second the Fotis "yep" on the .340

 

[350JR]

Interesting. I have not had the 7mm Wby cases in Dad's rifle stretch at all. I recently measured some before I loaded them for the 3rd or 4th time, and they measured virtually the same length as on Day 1.

I'm not sure, other than a 6.5 made from a 257 or 270 or the more common 7mm-300, what type of wildcat you would want to make from a Weatherby that isn't similar to what Roy originally made.

I'm working on a short action round. The only reason the Weatherby shoulder is involved is because I don't have custom dies made, I alter existing ones and with SUPER results. I make the chamber specs to work with the brass specs I end up with and can easily repeat. Some come up with a "design" and make custom dies to make such. Too much work and too much expense IMHO, and isnt' justifiable for what I'm doing.

The Redding form/trim die for a weatherby case (but used for any belted case) simply is the closest to what shoulder WIDTH (yes others are "close") I want and the REDDING (not RCBS) trim dies form to CHAMBER specs, not resized round specs and give me more "wiggle room" to end up where my pea brain "says" I want it.

A Redding form and trim die for any Weatherby round starts the shoulder style and while I've not YET bought the form and trim die I wish to use, I imagine the shoulder will be just a "rough" forming and fire formed in the chamber to "finish" it will be mandatory. Pretty SOP I've found.

I AM going to look at what degree of angle in a straight angled shoulder would come closest to the formed brass. What I see in other's viewpoints of WHAT that angle would be stated here online has a pretty wide range.

I ended up finding some fairly HIGH end reloading dies I have listed here and doing so just because I really have no "need" for a micrometer bullet seater and flinch a little thinking of taking a band saw to such. :?

Trying to end up with standard REDDING dies and EITHER a 7mm Wby or 270 Wby mag form/trim Redding die.
Funds are tight for me. Long time build. Next summer ETA. Redding Wby form/trim dies are a bit tough to find but I know of one in stock. Probably going to have to pull the trigger on that come payday (one a month) but had hoped someone would be willing to swap out new Ultra dies for their used standard dies and trim die. Nothing ventured..........etc.

FWIW, no, I am not even attempting to match anything Roy achieved. This is simply a personal "want" project and the Wby dies will give me almost exactly the dimensions desired BUT with the Wby shoulder started so......covering the bases and asking.

And yes........I know. This appears "back-asswards" to others. No problem. I'm accustomed to nay-sayers and any who scoff at what I am doing. You wont hurt my feelings. (Been married four times......you cant come up with anything new I haven't been called before. :wink: )

Tough ol geezer. lol

God Bless for the help. Undecided as yet and I had read some quoting "excessive stretch". One has to wonder if that sometimes isn't cause by also excessive shoulder set back from the person loading such repeatedly? or a slightly oversized chamber? Just thoughts.

2 cents
God Bless

 

[Dr. Vette]

Interesting. A short action Wby-shouldered round.
You thinking similar in size to a .308 Win?

 

[350JR]

Interesting. A short action Wby-shouldered round.
You thinking similar in size to a .308 Win?

Actualllllllllllllllllllly?? In the case I have the shoulder HEIGHT set for curiosity purposes, the entire case capacity of the 308 family rounds will fit below the neck, which to me is the ROUGH "net" capacity and was actually expected and the goal. First one to be made (seriously hints at I plan on more than one bore size huh? :grin: ) is the .277 bore. This was paid attention to because I absolutely refuse to load a bullet below neck bottom with rare exceptions if the bullet has a long boattail. That single factor is much of the reason I'm creating this for my use.

I will be honest here. I hesitate posting much of my thought process in a public forum. I habitually run into others that feel Rule x or Rule y or some other "method of doing something" is the ONLY method and everything else is "wrong" and "wont work" so.......more often than not, I USUALLY don't say much about my projects online. Thinking outside the box is SOP for me for most my life. It's been great fun too, I wish to add.

I mention that because HERE, on this forum, I don't recall such negativity so, I'm willing to share with those showing any interest and I GREATLY appreciate any thoughts on the whole "weatherby shoulder" or "freebore" in such. For now, it's rather "up in the air" but time remains. Truthfully, I am totally ignorant on such since I have ZERO experience with them.

I cannot express the level of my curiosity concerning such. Had I the FUNDS, building two, one with a close as possibly angled shoulder without a freebore and another WITH the Weatherby shoulder and WITH some length of freebore , and take them to run through the paces, side by side, would be of huge interest to me.

No promises. I may think differently about any opinions but any willing to share their thoughts and/or experiences are more than welcome. I cannot have "too much information" to toss into my think tank.

God bless

 

[kraky]

I can't see why shoulder shape would affect case stretch. I would put any problems simply on chamber dimensions. The craziest stretch I ever saw was a factory savage 300 win mag that stretched .025" from virgin dimension. As crazy as that was by resizing from there on out...only pushing the shoulders back .002" .......still got me 5 more reloads before trashing the brass.

 

[Guy Miner]

Is this going to have any ad advantage over the WSM or RSAUM cases which also can be built to .308 lengths?

Just curious... The 6.5 has been done on the WSM and the .270 WSM is a factory hot rod.

Regards, Guy

 

[kraky]

One thing I "think" I've noticed and not liked when playing w/a wsm's was if you didn't knock the shoulder back at least .002-.003 when resizing for full power loads was substantial bolt lift ejecting the empty. It seemed to me perhaps a lot of friction by the massive shoulder area pressing on the front of the chamber. I "thought" I noticed this on two different factory rifles I loaded for buddies. Am I goofy or does this exist?

 

[350JR]

If your "advantage" mentioned is velocity......no. Efficiency....yes.

This round is being built for a lighter, shorter rifle for medium ranges (to you guys LOL). I'd have to look for and set up for a shot over 300 yards here in Indiana. In half my hunting spots 400 yards is on someone else's property. :grin:

The WSM capacities are a bit "overboard" to me for a short action rifle.

I simply have zero use for such.

God Bless

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Since a previous discussion on efficiency got me started (curious)...if I were looking to wildcat something I'd be doing it on the Rem SAUM case.

I'm not one to give Remington many compliments...but that lil case has potential....from 6.5mm all the way through .338.

Pretty much everything that can be done with metallic cartridges has been done...about all thats left is to try to do more with less....less powder, less brass, less barrel, less barrel wear, etc.

Improve a SUAM case (35-40 degree shoulder), leave the neck as long as possible....

 

[350JR]

Since a previous discussion on efficiency got me started (curious)...if I were looking to wildcat something I'd be doing it on the Rem SAUM case.

I'm not one to give Remington many compliments...but that lil case has potential....from 6.5mm all the way through .338.

Pretty much everything that can be done with metallic cartridges has been done...about all thats left is to try to more with less....less powder, less barrel, less barrel wear, etc.

EXACTLY!!

However, for me, I am not a rebated rim fan nor feel I desire quite that much capacity. For my use. I've had a long LONG love affair with the belted cases and don't feel they have been used in a properly PROPORTIONED short action round, so......just decided to build one.

God Bless

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Since a previous discussion on efficiency got me started (curious)...if I were looking to wildcat something I'd be doing it on the Rem SAUM case.

I'm not one to give Remington many compliments...but that lil case has potential....from 6.5mm all the way through .338.

Pretty much everything that can be done with metallic cartridges has been done...about all thats left is to try to more with less....less powder, less barrel, less barrel wear, etc.

EXACTLY!!

However, for me, I am not a rebated rim fan nor feel I desire quite that much capacity. For my use. I've had a long LONG love affair with the belted cases and don't feel they have been used in a properly PROPORTIONED short action round, so......just decided to build one.

God Bless

For a belted round,
7mm-350 Rem Mag would be close, I think...neck is a little short though.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

My thoughts on the question asked in the OP...

The double radius allows the brass to flow under pressure...probably less than a standard 17.5 - 25 degree shoulder, but more than a 35-40 degree standard shoulder would.

I've never fired a Weatherby round, but that is my hypothesis based on what I've read of brass flow and wildcats.

 

[350JR]

There is ONE thing, IMHO, incorrect about the 350 mag and 6.5 mag rounds and I LOVE them both.

They are TOO LONG for a short action round. Bullet seating depths required rob the round of capacity anyway........so WHY make it so long? Efficiency lost.

God Bless