What could I expect from a 6mm WSM??

[jtoews80]

I've wanted a hot 6mm for along time and I finally got a Savage barrel wrench(not common here in Canada), so I am wondering what could I expect from a 6mm WSM?? I am of the mind I can get 3200 with a 105-107 grn match bullet and around 3050-3100 with a 115 grn DTAC, but am not sure that is worth the extra case prep and dies.

If I go 6mm WSM AI then I need dies, reamer and HS guages as well.
The 243 AI gets close to the 6mm WSM, so how much improvement would the 6mm AI in 40 or 44 degree offer?

Barrel considered is a 3 groove 8 twist Pac-nor 29" no taper, full OD cylinder in case I don't like this chambering I can recut and setback threads a couple times.

If it can't launch a 115 DTAC over 3250 I'd think it to be a waste of time for the effort and money required.

JT.

 

[FOTIS]

Just a prediction
Cartridge : .243 WSSM
Bullet : .243, 100, Nosler PART SP 35642
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.360 inch or 59.94 mm
Barrel Length : 29.0 inch or 736.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.

Matching Maximum Pressure: 62000 psi, or 427 MPa

or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %

These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 114.9 55.9 3.62 3493 95.8 62000 11521 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Retumbo 118.6 55.0 3.56 3464 100.0 62000 10329 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 114.4 52.7 3.42 3447 99.3 62000 10534 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 103.7 49.9 3.23 3444 100.0 62000 10243 1.234 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 111.8 51.3 3.32 3439 100.0 62000 9810 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 105.5 49.7 3.22 3435 98.6 62000 10533 1.231 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 107.7 53.2 3.44 3426 99.2 62000 10300 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 108.1 53.2 3.45 3425 99.2 62000 10290 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 107.9 53.1 3.44 3424 99.3 62000 10272 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.7 51.8 3.36 3421 97.5 62000 10577 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 104.0 49.2 3.19 3415 98.9 62000 10164 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 109.9 49.2 3.19 3415 98.9 62000 10164 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H870 120.0 57.1 3.70 3409 96.9 58515 11051 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 105.7 49.3 3.19 3408 99.6 62000 10117 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 105.7 49.3 3.19 3408 99.6 62000 10117 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 105.7 49.3 3.19 3408 99.6 62000 10117 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 108.5 49.5 3.21 3406 99.5 62000 10130 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 104.9 48.9 3.17 3397 98.8 62000 10089 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 108.7 52.0 3.37 3380 99.0 62000 9904 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000 114.2 52.1 3.38 3376 98.9 62000 9872 1.223 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 106.8 48.9 3.17 3366 98.5 62000 9861 1.240 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 101.8 46.7 3.02 3358 99.4 62000 9595 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 102.3 47.2 3.06 3356 99.5 62000 9649 1.238 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 97.6 44.7 2.90 3351 100.0 62000 9163 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 97.8 46.6 3.02 3349 100.0 62000 9298 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 92.4 45.1 2.92 3348 100.0 62000 9344 1.245 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 103.0 47.5 3.08 3348 99.5 62000 9576 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 100.1 44.2 2.86 3337 100.0 62000 9150 1.241 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 90.2 43.6 2.83 3336 100.0 62000 8780 1.232 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 99.6 45.7 2.96 3333 100.0 62000 8619 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.2 46.2 2.99 3328 99.3 62000 9403 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 100.2 46.2 2.99 3328 99.3 62000 9403 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 97.0 46.2 2.99 3328 99.3 62000 9403 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 94.6 44.6 2.89 3326 100.0 62000 9026 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 97.4 44.4 2.88 3325 100.0 62000 8903 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 97.4 44.4 2.88 3325 100.0 62000 8900 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 103.4 48.2 3.12 3324 98.2 62000 9514 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 107.6 48.2 3.12 3324 98.2 62000 9514 1.237 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 90.1 44.3 2.87 3324 99.9 62000 9221 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 101.0 44.5 2.89 3320 100.0 62000 8857 1.268 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 24N41 115.9 56.9 3.69 3315 89.0 62000 10128 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 102.5 47.8 3.10 3312 99.8 62000 9185 1.259 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 102.2 45.1 2.92 3302 100.0 62000 8694 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 90.9 43.3 2.80 3300 100.0 62000 8594 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 91.0 43.3 2.81 3298 100.0 62000 8581 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 100.8 49.0 3.18 3298 99.4 62000 9144 1.245 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N170 117.4 53.5 3.47 3297 94.0 62000 9745 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 111.8 48.8 3.16 3296 100.0 62000 8881 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 101.0 45.9 2.98 3293 98.7 62000 9174 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 107.8 49.2 3.19 3291 99.7 62000 8956 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0701 97.0 44.3 2.87 3285 100.0 62000 8882 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 88.7 40.9 2.65 3283 100.0 62000 8494 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 88.7 40.9 2.65 3283 100.0 62000 8494 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 88.7 40.9 2.65 3283 100.0 62000 8494 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 89.8 40.1 2.60 3281 100.0 62000 8113 1.235 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 90.0 42.4 2.75 3279 100.0 62000 8613 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 89.1 41.1 2.66 3277 100.0 62000 8428 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 103.5 44.6 2.89 3273 100.0 62000 8186 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 107.8 47.6 3.09 3272 98.6 62000 8988 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 86.8 42.7 2.76 3270 100.0 62000 8520 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 83.7 42.1 2.73 3264 100.0 62000 8313 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 94.8 42.9 2.78 3263 99.8 62000 8771 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 91.9 43.0 2.78 3262 99.8 62000 8764 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 90.3 42.1 2.73 3261 100.0 62000 8289 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 90.6 41.1 2.66 3261 100.0 62000 8196 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0651 95.9 43.3 2.80 3258 100.0 62000 8537 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 92.3 42.1 2.73 3256 100.0 62000 8211 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 86.6 41.3 2.67 3252 100.0 62000 8232 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 92.5 41.7 2.70 3252 100.0 62000 8238 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 81.4 40.4 2.62 3252 100.0 62000 8026 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D1001 113.5 56.3 3.65 3250 90.1 62000 9403 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 91.2 40.8 2.65 3246 100.0 62000 8230 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 91.5 40.8 2.65 3246 100.0 62000 8230 1.247 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon US 869 120.0 58.9 3.82 3243 87.9 57502 9993 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 92.0 40.1 2.60 3235 100.0 62000 8057 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon 50BMG 120.0 56.2 3.64 3234 83.5 57035 10027 1.285 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 83.4 40.2 2.60 3234 100.0 62000 8011 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 85.0 42.2 2.73 3232 100.0 62000 8003 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 81.2 40.1 2.60 3232 100.0 62000 7994 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 81.9 40.6 2.63 3229 100.0 62000 8028 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 82.9 38.4 2.49 3227 100.0 62000 7937 1.254 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 89.7 40.2 2.61 3223 100.0 62000 7929 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 91.1 40.7 2.63 3217 100.0 62000 7781 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 85.5 40.6 2.63 3217 100.0 62000 7790 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 87.9 37.9 2.46 3216 100.0 62000 7645 1.265 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 83.4 39.3 2.55 3215 100.0 62000 7908 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 93.9 40.5 2.62 3209 100.0 62000 7772 1.295 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 92.9 44.2 2.87 3205 99.7 62000 8262 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 88.7 39.5 2.56 3205 100.0 62000 7806 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 79.6 39.4 2.55 3201 100.0 62000 7707 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 97.5 42.4 2.75 3201 100.0 62000 7764 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 78.0 39.2 2.54 3199 100.0 62000 7681 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 77.7 38.3 2.48 3198 100.0 62000 7651 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 88.5 41.3 2.67 3198 100.0 62000 7800 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 94.0 41.7 2.70 3197 100.0 62000 7716 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 77.6 38.3 2.48 3197 100.0 62000 7641 1.261 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 86.3 39.2 2.54 3196 100.0 62000 7658 1.267 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0601 86.9 39.0 2.53 3193 100.0 62000 7734 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 80.6 39.9 2.58 3190 100.0 62000 7625 1.278 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 82.6 37.0 2.40 3184 100.0 62000 7468 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 77.6 37.0 2.40 3184 100.0 62000 7468 1.257 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0731 79.5 39.1 2.53 3181 100.0 62000 7564 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 79.4 39.2 2.54 3181 100.0 62000 7529 1.273 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 79.2 37.7 2.44 3180 100.0 62000 7557 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 76.1 37.6 2.44 3178 100.0 62000 7487 1.263 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206 86.3 39.4 2.55 3178 100.0 62000 7614 1.252 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 87.3 38.1 2.47 3177 100.0 62000 7496 1.302 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R901 85.1 37.3 2.42 3176 100.0 62000 7531 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0733 79.3 38.9 2.52 3175 100.0 62000 7494 1.262 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 85.6 39.5 2.56 3174 100.0 62000 7590 1.251 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 84.3 38.3 2.48 3173 100.0 62000 7514 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 77.5 38.1 2.47 3172 100.0 62000 7498 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 13 120.0 56.5 3.66 3166 91.8 51170 9791 1.350
Accurate 2200 77.0 36.0 2.34 3161 100.0 62000 7348 1.253 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 81.2 39.5 2.56 3161 100.0 62000 7221 1.272 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 74.8 35.4 2.29 3154 100.0 62000 7216 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 82.7 38.9 2.52 3151 100.0 62000 7294 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 93.8 39.2 2.54 3148 100.0 62000 7179 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori 20N29 120.0 59.5 3.86 3140 88.5 50185 9913 1.361
Alliant Reloder-10x 80.4 35.0 2.27 3123 100.0 62000 7063 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 86.7 39.1 2.54 3120 100.0 62000 7115 1.277 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 81.7 36.5 2.36 3113 100.0 62000 6973 1.283 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 78.5 34.0 2.20 3108 100.0 62000 6853 1.250 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 68.7 34.0 2.21 3108 100.0 62000 6920 1.258 ! Near Maximum !
SF-033 fl 76.8 36.2 2.34 3095 100.0 62000 6843 1.293 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP1/NP ~approximation 72.8 34.7 2.25 3094 100.0 62000 6874 1.290 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 72.8 34.7 2.25 3094 100.0 62000 6874 1.290 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N133 88.4 37.3 2.42 3091 100.0 62000 6787 1.270 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 120.0 56.5 3.66 3091 89.0 47983 9594 1.390
Accurate 5744 70.1 30.2 1.96 3088 100.0 62000 6884 1.255 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 80.5 33.3 2.16 3077 100.0 62000 6645 1.260 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 83.4 36.0 2.33 3075 100.0 62000 6724 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
Kazan Sunar 308W 79.7 35.9 2.33 3072 100.0 62000 6711 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 8700 120.0 56.7 3.67 3071 89.8 47538 9548 1.391
Alliant Reloder- 7 76.2 34.0 2.20 3070 100.0 62000 6695 1.276 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2207 76.2 32.8 2.13 3048 100.0 62000 6577 1.282 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 296 60.1 29.8 1.93 3046 100.0 62000 6580 1.280 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 73.6 31.1 2.01 3014 100.0 62000 6290 1.269 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 73.5 31.0 2.01 3014 100.0 62000 6281 1.264 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0200 66.6 30.7 1.99 2999 100.0 62000 6216 1.279 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 78.5 33.0 2.14 2991 100.0 62000 6164 1.289 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0631 61.1 29.4 1.90 2973 100.0 62000 6064 1.266 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110 62.0 30.7 1.99 2969 100.0 62000 6176 1.292 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0531 74.3 30.7 1.99 2960 100.0 62000 6023 1.285 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S265 72.9 30.9 2.00 2926 100.0 62000 5837 1.305 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 60.4 28.9 1.87 2910 100.0 62000 5856 1.310 ! Near Maximum !

 

[JD338]

JT,

Sounds like an interesting cartridge. The 6.5mm WSM seems to be popular.
My concern would be barrel life.

JD338

 

[jtoews80]

If I were to go ahead with it, I would just get a prefit Pac Nor barrel for my savage. Dies are $120 from Graf's and if I go with the improved I'd be looking at a custom reamer and hs gauge for around $250 and also a $250 set of custom dies. Or I could just go with the 6mm-300WSM and settle for 78 grains case capacity. Still a potent round, no fireforming and while not an original thought, still pretty cool.

Looking at the 243 WSSM data tho, it could be a thought.

JT.

 

[YoteSmoker]

A burned up barrel. A 6.5 WSM however would be a real screamer and might last a little longer and you could shoot the high BC hunting bullets.

 

[FOTIS]

Or a 25 WSM.....

 

[cloverleaf]

Pop's got it right. A 25WSM. Its what they should have done in the first place. The WSSM was pointless. But what do I know.... Enjoy what your building and let us know how it goes. CL

 

[pacer97]

jtoews80 I have to agree with YoteSmoker 6.5 would be great I just would build a 6.5 RSAUM just me you know its the air down south off you.

Hope your enjoying the weather up there it's going to change.

Best Alan

 

[jtoews80]

A 6.5 WSM would be a great little round, but the rifle already has a 264 barrel on it.
I just got a barrel wrench and thought since I've got the rifle where I want it, I can play with a different caliber for only the cost of a pre-fitted barrel and dies. :grin: :grin: :grin:

That 264 barrel shoots very well. Not really fast, but very consistent for velocity and accuracy. I need some fields to hunt where I can really use it's reach. I haven't tried the new 140 grn AccuBond in that barrel, but am pretty sure it would be lethal to WT's along way out.

JT.

 

[jtoews80]

That 264 shot around 4 inches @ 500 yds last time we stretched her legs a little. I know alot of guys wouldn't call that stretching a 6.5mm, but I'll take anything under MOA.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

well you'd prolly suffer pressure spikes from powder bridgeing in the 243/wsm case unless ya use ball powder.
whats wrong with a 6mm/284? 6mm/06 and its AI twin? 240 gibbs?

thats why the 25 wsm was never made, pressure problems with single based extruded powders.
RR

 

[jtoews80]

THe 240 Gibbs is a great round, as is the 240 wby and 243 AI. All needing a .473 boltface, and I've got is a 0.532". So, I need either a new bolt or to choose something with a .532 boltface if I want to get a second barrel for my savage. There are alot of good options, but the gaps to fill in my battery are not huge either.

Noticeable gaps being the 6mm, 7mm & .338. A good 7mm STW or RUM barrel would be great, I've got dies for both. Or a 338 RUM or EDGE. Anything 3.6" OAL will be single shot. If I save the 6mm for one more Rem 700 in 243 AI it would make a really nice trio. Or I could go with a cylinder contour and a 29" barrel to start in 243 AI and punch out to 240 gibbs if it doesn't have enough. The great thing about customs is they take so long to build that one usually keeps them.

JT

 

[Ridge_Runner]

well with a 29" barrel a 6mm AI should produce 3200 fps with a 105, I run 95 gr. BT's 3200 with a book max load in a 22" barreled vanilla 6mm. a 240 gibbs should run the 105's 3400 plus with the same barrel, my 6.5 Gibbs will do 3340 with a 140 from a 29.5" tube.
RR

 

[jtoews80]

The 240 gibbs doesn't have the cool factor a 6mm with that fat WSM case does, but 06 brass doesn't have the ouch factor that WSM brass does..... :?

I wasn't aware that the 240 Gibbs went that fast. That would mean that a 115 DTAC should go around 3250FPS, exactly where I want it to go.

With the .590 BC and a MV of 3250 the ballistics should be very similar to or slightly better than a max loaded 30-378 wby with a 200 grn AccuBond(BC .588). I had chrony'd the 200 grn AB @ 3200 or so, but the group was opening up. It was accurate around 3000-3100, and still hit like a Mack truck.

JT.