What if I'd of stuck to 30-06?

[ldg397]

Idg497 wrote : "300 win, 300 wsm, 270 win, 270 wsm"

Over the years, I left the 30-06 behind and have gone to one of the souped up cartridges that promised more velocity and thus a greater effective range. In the main, my reason *was* based on getting more effective range. I was discussing this with a hunter much older than I. He made a good point; "If you see an elk at 800 yards and can stalk into the range of your rifle to take that elk, then you are a hunter!" I have often thought about what that man said.
Along that same line of thought, I admit, most honorable bow hunters are more patient than am I and in most cases, better hunters.
Maybe getting a 30-378 in order to shoot game at extreme range is the wrong reason to use it.

Exactly my point; the difference between a hunter and a shooter! My other point is a 30-06 can be affective at long ranges as well as long as you have done your part with wind and hold over and know your distances. People always say as long as you don't want to shoot over 300 the 30-06 is great, but it can be effective past 300. Granted the high speed flat trajectories make it a whole lot easier. That extreme power is not needed to kill at extreme range but I think it is needed to make accuracy easier. But what do I know?

 

[roysclockgun]

Two points : I have not intended to purposely offend anyone who uses any legal tool for hunting. I did read an article a few years back, regarding a group of hunters who mounted a .50cal rifle on the bed of a pick-up. They'd bought one of those huge artillery range finders, where the lenses are about six feet apart. They set up high in the Rocky Mtns. and scoped for elk. They found a Bull at 1200 yards, lying on a patch of snow, basking in the sun. They scoped out a spot, some distance from the bull, but at the same range of 1200 yds. They then ranged the .50cal rifle to hit a rock at the 1200 yd. distance. Once they had ranged the rifle, they again acquired the reclining Bull in the scope of the .50 cal. and killed him! Okay, at that time, everything that they did, was legal. Ethical? You tell me.
The best hunt that I ever had, was stalking a group of mule deer that I had spotted at over a mile away, in the snow, at day break. It took me three hours to get up on the deer, as they continued to move into the higher country. I finally did get my shot at 404 yards, with 7mmRemMag. I am almost as bad as the men with the .50 cal.!!

 

[Richracer1]

I did read an article a few years back, regarding a group of hunters who mounted a .50cal rifle on the bed of a pick-up. They'd bought one of those huge artillery range finders, where the lenses are about six feet apart. They set up high in the Rocky Mtns. and scoped for elk. They found a Bull at 1200 yards, lying on a patch of snow, basking in the sun. They scoped out a spot, some distance from the bull, but at the same range of 1200 yds. They then ranged the .50cal rifle to hit a rock at the 1200 yd. distance. Once they had ranged the rifle, they again acquired the reclining Bull in the scope of the .50 cal. and killed him! Okay, at that time, everything that they did, was legal. Ethical? You tell me.

As for legality of this. it would be illegal in Idaho due to 1) the rifle being mounted in a truck bed and 2) most, if not all 50 cal centerfire rifles exceed Idaho's max weight requirements for a big game hunting rifle.

For the ethical part of this, I will not get into it as 1) every hunter has their own to which they live/hunt by and 2) who am I to judge some else's ethics. My only thing is people follow the regulations of the state/country they are hunting in.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Few of these owners are willing to take the time to practise at long ranges to become proficient.

Dr. Mike, I bet alot of those guys don't even make it to the practice stage. With their new custom rifle they think they are ready for long range hunting. Then after about the third or fourth range trip, reality starts to set in. Soon, they realize their scope is not up to the task. Because Parallax changes as the range changes, or they run out of elevation adjustment now they need a new scope, something in a 30mm side focus. Hey why can't I see the bullet holes in the target past 200 yards. Now they need a new spotting scope. Hey, this range finder doesn't work as well as I expected, guess I need a new Leica, Swarovski, range finder....and since it still doens't work well enough in bright conditions, I need a back up. Time to to send my new scope back to Leupold for a new Mildot/TMR reticle. Why doesn't this new custom gun group the way I want. Neck turning? Custom bench dies? Add a muzzle brake? Wind gage? Barometer? Ballistic computer? This rifle weighs how much? Hey, this long range hunting is tougher, and more expensive, then I expected.

 

[DrMike]

"I bet alot of those guys don't even make it to the practice stage. With their new custom rifle they think they are ready for long range hunting."

Sniper,

You are absolutely correct. Most of them read a magazine article or saw a television show, and they are ready. I suppose I am becoming cynical about the expertise I am witnessing among people who are unwilling to spend time at the bench and expect to be an instant expert.

Truthfully, few of them seem to make it to the second range trip. Most of them fail to do the preliminary work at 200 yards and can't hit squat at 400 (which is the max for our local range). For distance shooting, it is necessary to go out into the cutblocks to find 1000 yard ranges. I know only a handful of fellows who are doing that. Many, perhaps most, are slinging lead at 400 yards, and wondering why they can't shoot better. Nevertheless, there is a lot of boasting of taking elk at 600 yards every year! (Most of those 600 yard shots can be ranged at about 250 yards. As for the others, well, even a blind hog finds acorns once in a while.):shock:

I have seen a large number of very fine rifles purchased, topped with a very fine scope, that later appears on the used rack for a fraction of what is invested in the rifle. Few people in this immediate area are prepared for distance shooting; and I can probably count those who are adequately equipped on one hand. I admire those individuals who take time to perfect the art and science of long-range shooting, because I know that it takes time and effort.

The overwhelming majority of my shots have been between 70 and 125 yards.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

The overwhelming majority of my shots have been between 70 and 125 yards.

You have alot more tree's in Northern British Columbia.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

One of my favorite photo's on this forum is DF's picture of his Long Range kit. It's one nice setup! 8)

 

[DrMike]

It's one nice setup!

+1

Sniper,

You are correct. This is not desert country; there are more trees and it is true that the forests (especially the undergrowth) are somewhat more dense than in Colorado or California. Also, as a general rule, game is plentiful.

 

[roysclockgun]

Dr.Mike wrote: "The overwhelming majority of my shots have been between 70 and 125 yards."

I believe that the quote is true for the vast majority of hunters, who have been at it for any length of time. It is especially true for deer hunters in the NE section of the US. Where I grew up in Maryland, most deer, and especially bucks, were taken in wooded areas. Mature bucks were seldom seen in open fields during the day! That is why the Thuty-Thuty is still going strong among hunters who only know that they want to go deer hunting and little to nothing about ballistics, or hunting. They know the Thuty-Thuty, because a family member uses one, or a friend, so they make there way to a big box store and buy a Thuty-Thuty and one box of ammo, the night before opening day of deer season and before the ink is dry on the sales receipt, they are in the woods. One chap that I knew well, managed to knock down a deer. The deer was not moving, but he stood above it and emptied the balance of the loaded rounds into the body. Another lad had a buck walk out and he imagined that he was pumping rounds into the buck, as the buck walked away. When the buck was gone, he looked down to see five loaded cartridges, lying at his feet.
If these stories were not true, they'd be funny!
Clerks at gun stores can be very dangerous! On a number of occasions, men have come into my clock shop to ask me what they are doing wrong, in loading ammo into their deer rifles. Most of the time, they have been sold the wrong ammo, even when they are buying the rifle at the same time!

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Clerks at gun stores can be very dangerous! On a number of occasions, men have come into my clock shop to ask me what they are doing wrong, in loading ammo into their deer rifles. Most of the time, they have been sold the wrong ammo, even when they are buying the rifle at the same time!

I think I've met that clerk. :?

 

[roysclockgun]

Probably flea market concessionaires are worse. I recently bought two rifles with boxes of incorrect ammo going with the rifles. One was an Arisaka, nicely sporterized that had it's chamber reamed to 257Roberts. A box of 257Roberts ammo went with the rifle, as the "ammo that fits it!". One round was missing from the box. The Arisaka had the original bore, 6.5mm! I am hand loading for that one and still have the 257Roberts cartridges.
The second one was a sporterized 7x57mm Mauser that had a box of 7mm-08 cartridges with it as "this ammo fits the rifle"!
All one has to do, is to pick up a firearm at the flea market, to hear strange, untrue claims! I believe that if any attempt at all is made, it strictly has to do with measuring the bore at the muzzle. 7.65x53mm Argentine Mausers are touted as "30-06"! 8x56R Austrian straight pull Mannlicher rifles are touted as using "8mm Mauser ammo"! And on and on!