What is going on?

[old #7]

I am having troubles with a Ruger m77 in 7mm mag.
I have played with powder, bullet, primer combo's and the gun shoots 4" groups. I am wondering if my scope is the problem. Is there any way to test the scope? I don't want to take a scope off another rifle.

 

[JD338]

Need a little more information and history-

What is your load? Bullet, Powder, Case and Primer

What level of accuracy did you have?

Have you cheked to make sure everything is tight?
Action screws, Scope bases and rings.

What kind of scope do you have?

How has the barrel been cleaned? What cleaning products are you using?

Is the barrel free floated? Wrap a folded dollar bill around the barrel and run it down the barrel channel. It may have a pressure point about 1-1.5" from the forend. It should be clear from that point to just in front of the recoil lug.

Let us know and we will help you get things figured out.

JD338

 

[FOTIS]

Need more info!

Used?
New?
With Factory?
Fired a lot?
Use to shoot at some point?
Type of scope?
Factory stock rifle?
Free-floated?

yada yada yada..........

 

[old #7]

The gun is new, scope is zeiss conquest 3x9 z plex, free floated barrel, no copper fouling, I keep a cleen gun, have been shooting RP brass, I have been working from min to max, rl-22, rl-19, IMR 4831, CCI 250, 160 ab"s,
tighest groups have been 3" @ 100yds, completely cooling the barrel between shots. (I alwayse take a few guns to the range).The action screws are tight and the scope bases-rings are also tight.
I don't get it. All of my other factory rifles shoot under an inch easily after finding the right reload. I have a shot out springfield 1903 that shoots tighter groups.

 

[HeathSexton]

This helped all 3 of mine: The factories tighten to a certain spec for torque. I don't have that capability so I do this. I let the action sit loose in the stock with zero torque applied by any screws. I then tighten the forward recoil lug screw as tight as I possibly can by hand. I want the screw to snug that recoil lug back and tight as it can. I then go all the way to the very back tang screw and tighten it firm. Not white knuckle, but good and firm. Then the middle screw is tightened just enough to keep it from falling out of the gun. That places less stress/torque on the action and helps the bedding do its job.

 

[Charlie-NY]

Based on what you have said I would try a differnt scope. If that doesn't bring the groups into normal range than I'd call Ruger and ship the rifle back. Everyone produces a lemon now and then. You could have a bad barrel, receiver, faulty inletting, who knows?

 

[Guy Miner]

Have you run any factory ammo through the rifle? Worth a try.

Might try your scope on another rifle known to be accurate. In the meantime, you could do a "box drill" to see if it tracks consistently. That may or may not tell you if the scope is your problem though.

I'd do all that after I re-checked the scope rings, and the bedding.

Box drill: (this works best with an accurate rifle capable of tight groups, but will work with your problem rifle with some mods).

Put a large piece of paper or cardboard downrange at 100 yards. Put a small aiming point in the lower left corner of the target. This will be your aiming point throughout the drill.

Fire a three-round group at that aiming point. Adjust your scope elevation five MOA up, 20 "clicks" on most scopes. Fire another three-shot group. Adjust your scope 5 MOA right, fire another three-shot group. Adjust your scope 5 MOA down, fire a fourth 3-shot group. Adjust your scope back to the left, 5 MOA, and fire a final 3-shot group.

The last group should land right where your first group impacted. The four corners of the box should be well defined. The point of impact should have moved about 5" up, right, down and left, back to the original point of impact. If it does so - your scope is at least tracking properly.

Now - your rifle isn't grouping worth a hoot - so we need to modify the drill. Instead of 100 yards, try 50 yards - also, instead of 5 MOA, use at least 10 MOA between groups, so that you can better see what is happening at 50 yards.

And yes - you may have a lemon of a rifle - it happens. A few years ago I had a Win 70 that wouldn't shoot worth a hoot - no matter what I tried. I gave up on it.

Best of luck, Guy

 

[JD338]

The gun is new, scope is zeiss conquest 3x9 z plex, free floated barrel, no copper fouling, I keep a cleen gun, have been shooting RP brass, I have been working from min to max, rl-22, rl-19, IMR 4831, CCI 250, 160 ab"s,
tighest groups have been 3" @ 100yds, completely cooling the barrel between shots. (I alwayse take a few guns to the range).The action screws are tight and the scope bases-rings are also tight.
I don't get it. All of my other factory rifles shoot under an inch easily after finding the right reload. I have a shot out springfield 1903 that shoots tighter groups.

You might also try a different bullet like a 160 gr PT and also 140 gr and /or 150 gr bullets. Your rifle may not like the 160gr AB's.

JD338

 

[HeathSexton]

Might not be what you want to shoot but my MKII All Weather 7mm loves the Hornady Custom 139gr SPBT factory stuff, shoots awesome.

 

[steve4102]

I would change the scope and try again. If that didn't help, I would change the mounts and try again. If the scope and mounts are not the problem then look at the rifle itself.
You are not the first and certainly not the last to have a Ruger that will not shoot. Ruger has a reputation for "Hit and Miss" in the accuracy dept. Sending it off to Ruger for repairs will most likely accomplish nothing more than your time and money waisted. "Rugged, Reliable, Ruger" not accurate.

 

[old #7]

I have tried 140 and 160 ab's also 154gr Hornady IB's.
I am going to swap scopes and if that doesn't work I will ship it off to Ruger.
I hope the scope is the answer.

 

[R 300 Ultra Mag]

If a rifle wont group better than 4", how would the box drill help? Seems to me that the rifle would then shoot like crap in what would maybe look like a box.

 

[Guy Miner]

Only suggested box drill to eliminate possibility of scope issue. He stated that he didn't want to swap out his scope with another rifle - so I figured he might want to give it a bit of a workout. Yeah - if it's shooting real bad groups, then the box drill might not work so hot, which is why I suggested cutting the standard range in half, and increasing the number of "clicks" used on the box.

Over the net, it's pretty hard to diagnose someone else's accuracy problems. At this point - I dunno if it's the rifle, the scope, the ammo or the shooter...

Guy

 

[old #7]

It's not the shooter.
I am going to swap scopes today and hopefully I will have some time to shoot.
The big problem now is my other guns are sighted in exactly where I want them and I don't know what gun to swap with. My 270 shoots 2.25" groups @ 300, my 280 the same, my 300mag 3" @300 and on...
I took my time breaking the rifle in. Cleaning after three rounds and removing copper after six. Shot two boxes of Rem core lock durring the break in. Thinking back to that day ... the gun didn't shoot well but I blamed it on the factory ammo. That has been the only scope ever mounted on the gun. I hope it's the scope.
I bought the gun because it looks very nice. The blueing is very deep and the walnut stock is beautiful. I hope I don't have a beautiful piece of....

 

[Charlie-NY]

If you're pulling a scope off of another rile that is already sighted in - put a bore scope in the donor rifle before removing the scope. Then make a written notation as to where the crosshairs are on the graph. When the scope is returned to the original rifle just adjust the crosshairs back to their original position. You will be surprised at how close this will get you. It definately saves ammo as you will only need minimal adjustment.

I've done this sucessfully many times.

 

[Guy Miner]

"It's not the shooter. " :grin: I believe ya, but must admit that it generally is the shooter when one of my rifles isn't producing good groups! :grin:

 

[FOTIS]

This helped all 3 of mine: The factories tighten to a certain spec for torque. I don't have that capability so I do this. I let the action sit loose in the stock with zero torque applied by any screws. I then tighten the forward recoil lug screw as tight as I possibly can by hand. I want the screw to snug that recoil lug back and tight as it can. I then go all the way to the very back tang screw and tighten it firm. Not white knuckle, but good and firm. Then the middle screw is tightened just enough to keep it from falling out of the gun. That places less stress/torque on the action and helps the bedding do its job.

They need 30 inch/lbs.

 

[old #7]

Its the scope.
I swapped scopes, bore sighted and shot 10 rounds in a two inch group @ 100 yds from a kneeling position.
I am pretty sure from the bench I can do better.
Needless to say Ziess will be fixing or sending me a new scope.
I have two other Zeiss scopes and they perform very well.
If it takes a while to get the scope back I just might have to buy another one. :wink: :wink:
A guy can't have a rifle sitting around naked. :lol:

 

[Guy Miner]

That's great that you figured it out so quickly!

I think Z. will stand behind their scope and do what's right. Glad it wasn't the rifle!

Regards, Guy