What to do now ?

[RAY]

This is the 56 gr Imr 4350 165 gr bt 3006 load shot at 35 * ish all Cold Bore shots.

1st target bottom left is fouling shots , cold bore. Factory nosler 165 gr AB
1st target center diamond I put 3 in the same hole ( this was a warm barrel )

What can I do for this load ?

Top target is load work up in 70* temps . Bottom target is the 56gr load.

Thanks, Ray.

 

[Darkhorse]

I'm not sure what your asking here?
As for the cold barrel shot, the first shot will always be with a cold barrel so that's the one you gotta worry about. When I get to know a new rifle by shooting it a lot, one of the things I want to know is how many, if any, fouling shots does that barrel need before it settles down and shoots to point of aim first time.
My M700 7 mag. actually needs no fouling shots as this target shows.
However my Browning Abolt in .300 Win. needs a minimum of 3 fouling shots before it settles down. So I begin each season with 4 or 5 fouling shots down the pipe.
You also need to know the upper limit. How many shots before accuracy begins to fall off and stay away from that number.
As for your charge weights my 7mag shoots better a couple of grains below max. and I had to work with seating depth to bring the group in with max. loads.

 

[Elkman]

I have a couple of ideas. You seem to have done a lot of load work but have not shown a change in overall cartridge length. The groups shown tell me that changing seating depth may have a positive result. Many that I know have had trouble finding the sweet spot with the AB. Mine likes to be seated "shorter" than factory ammo.
I find it very hard to shoot small groups with a cold bore, because one usually gets away from the bench, or fiddles while waiting for the bore to cool. That changes shooting dynamics, cheek weld, the shoulder position and its hard to get back exactly the same as for the first shot. You have several excellent groups smaller than one inch. If you are using the rifle for big game hunting pick one of your sub 1" inch groups and run with it or adjust the seating depth. Hopefully this helps. :wink:

 

[RAY]

Thanks guys , the factory ammo and my ballistic tip loads did well while it was warm.
I have the factory depth and my 20 thou loads.
If possible, I'm looking to compensate for pressure loss if that is the case ?

If do 57 gr load, I wonder if would equal to somewhere around 55 or 56 charge ?

 

[wisconsinteacher]

I would retest 56.0/56.5/57.0 and watch for pressure as you go up. If that 56.0 repeats, you are good to go from the looks of it.

Nice work.

 

[RAY]

I would retest 56.0/56.5/57.0 and watch for pressure as you go up. If that 56.0 repeats, you are good to go from the looks of it.

Nice work.

Thanks WT, that bottom target is the 56 gr load except the bottom left diamond , that is the factory Noslers with each round from a cold bore.

 

[Dwh7271]

All of the above are great suggestions.
Since you asked, heres what I see. The 53, 54, and 55 grain loads are all printing in approximately the same area of the target. I'm assuming your hold was the same on each target? What the three loads would tell me is you probably have a really terrific load in there somewhere (not that any of those are bad, no offense intended). My thought would be work in small increments in that area and tune as Bill suggested.
The reason behind the answer is temperature and batches of powder change. Unless you're working from a big jug, you'll probably need more powder and it probably won't be the same batch. Your rifle is saying it likes that area. Minor changes in powder or in temperature shouldn't radically change a load centered in that 2-3 gr area. It is already showing it will hit approximately the same point of impact within that spread so minor variances shouldn't require an all new workup. Hope this makes some sense to you?
Sorry you asked? :lol:


Darkhorse: heckuva nice target there. Nice shooting!

 

[RAY]

I'm not sure what your asking here?
As for the cold barrel shot, the first shot will always be with a cold barrel so that's the one you gotta worry about. When I get to know a new rifle by shooting it a lot, one of the things I want to know is how many, if any, fouling shots does that barrel need before it settles down and shoots to point of aim first time.
My M700 7 mag. actually needs no fouling shots as this target shows.
However my Browning Abolt in .300 Win. needs a minimum of 3 fouling shots before it settles down. So I begin each season with 4 or 5 fouling shots down the pipe.
You also need to know the upper limit. How many shots before accuracy begins to fall off and stay away from that number.
As for your charge weights my 7mag shoots better a couple of grains below max. and I had to work with seating depth to bring the group in with max. loads.

Thanks DH ,it takes about 4 or 6 to get it going.
I shot my rifle 53 times the day I shot my test loads
I sighted in my Nikon 3 9 /40 with factory before I started

 

[RAY]

I have a couple of ideas. You seem to have done a lot of load work but have not shown a change in overall cartridge length. The groups shown tell me that changing seating depth may have a positive result. Many that I know have had trouble finding the sweet spot with the AB. Mine likes to be seated "shorter" than factory ammo.
I find it very hard to shoot small groups with a cold bore, because one usually gets away from the bench, or fiddles while waiting for the bore to cool. That changes shooting dynamics, cheek weld, the shoulder position and its hard to get back exactly the same as for the first shot. You have several excellent groups smaller than one inch. If you are using the rifle for big game hunting pick one of your sub 1" inch groups and run with it or adjust the seating depth. Hopefully this helps. :wink:

Thanks EM, I know the weather changed the speed , I had to adjust elevation.
I kept in mind to hold on target the exact same way.
Will seating depth change the speed ?

 

[SJB358]

Seating depth will change the speed very little Ray. You can always add a .5 grain of powder or whatever it takes to make it up once you find the seating depth it likes.

 

[RAY]

Seating depth will change the speed very little Ray. You can always add a .5 grain of powder or whatever it takes to make it up once you find the seating depth it likes.

Thanks SJB358 !!!!!!

 

[MAinAR]

Have seen this before with IMR powders in cold temps, not a big deal for hunting rig but you may be able to lock down a bit more consistency with H4350 instead of IMR4350. I have seen H4350 shoot better groups in the cold but it is combination specific. Your just seeing temperature sensitivity starting to rear its head........go down to about 5-10 degrees and you will see this amplify. Can still kill what ever your hunting so most never even notice it. Your very discerning in your load development which will require some minor changes.....LOL you on the right track.

 

[RAY]

Have seen this before with IMR powders in cold temps, not a big deal for hunting rig but you may be able to lock down a bit more consistency with H4350 instead of IMR4350. I have seen H4350 shoot better groups in the cold but it is combination specific. Your just seeing temperature sensitivity starting to rear its head........go down to about 5-10 degrees and you will see this amplify. Can still kill what ever your hunting so most never even notice it. Your very discerning in your load development which will require some minor changes.....LOL you on the right track.

I do have one lb of h 4350, I'll start in the middle !
Thanks, Ray

 

[Elkman]

ray "I shot my rifle 53 times the day I shot my test loads."

I know that many here will shoot that many rounds in a day, but when your trying for precision in a standard grade rifle,a fewer number of shots may also help your grouping.

 

[MAinAR]

ray "I shot my rifle 53 times the day I shot my test loads."

I know that many here will shoot that many rounds in a day, but when your trying for precision in a standard grade rifle,a fewer number of shots may also help your grouping.

+1!!! Yes the only one that matters is the FIRST ONE!!

 

[MAinAR]

Have seen this before with IMR powders in cold temps, not a big deal for hunting rig but you may be able to lock down a bit more consistency with H4350 instead of IMR4350. I have seen H4350 shoot better groups in the cold but it is combination specific. Your just seeing temperature sensitivity starting to rear its head........go down to about 5-10 degrees and you will see this amplify. Can still kill what ever your hunting so most never even notice it. Your very discerning in your load development which will require some minor changes.....LOL you on the right track.

I do have one lb of h 4350, I'll start in the middle !
Thanks, Ray

Shoot the same 56gr charge and see. H4350 needs in general .5 to 1 grain more to reach same pressure as IMR4350..

When you get to 2,900 fps your pretty much at max pressure with 165 grain bullets but it will shoot the same over a wider range of extremes than the IMR.

 

[RAY]

ray "I shot my rifle 53 times the day I shot my test loads."

I know that many here will shoot that many rounds in a day, but when your trying for precision in a standard grade rifle,a fewer number of shots may also help your grouping.

Yeah , fatigue sets in.
I retested that 56 gr load at only 20 shots.

I'll work on depth , h and bumping up the imr and see what happens !

 

[rick smith]

My standard 30/06 load with a 165gr bullet is 58.8grs Imr-4350 with a 210M or WLR primer. Bullet seated 10-15 thou off the lands. Rick.

 

[joelkdouglas]

I was going to say... Bump up the powder 2 grains and seat the bullets 0.03 off the lands. Then shoot until the barrel is shot out, because it will be good enough to kill anything that needs killing. And stop shooting from a bench because you won't get much better at killing animals from a bench.

And not just directed at you! I need to shoot from a bench, about never!

 

[SJB358]

And not just directed at you! I need to shoot from a bench, about never!

Amen to that. Plus it's way more fun shooting from the ground over a pack.