why magnums?

[OU812]

I was just curious why some folks go with magnum cartridges verses the standard .30-06 or .270 for long range big game hunting?

I see the energy charts, from Noslers 6th edition, pretty much show the heavier bullets hold up against the lighter mag bullets... and the 06 and 270 doesn't lag to far behind.

Thoughts?

What you say makes sense in is right in line with the laws of physics. To run a light mag bullets is not why I use a mag. I use a mag to run heavy bullets rather quickly and that is where the mags run off from the standard caliber rounds in the energy charts.

Only heavier bullets aren't needed to kill the same thing other calibers can. What yardage are you guys shooting at when hunting..... 1K?

No one, or at least I did not say heavier bullets were needed to kill but you originally brought up and were speaking of energy levels of the 06 and 270 at 600 yards. At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy, your choice of words not mine. I also never said the 300 rum was needed or all it's energy was needed to kill at that range but it certainly does not hurt either.

Nope I keep shots 400 and less if at all possible.

 

[longguner]

I see the energy charts, from Noslers 6th edition, pretty much show the heavier bullets hold up against the lighter mag bullets... and the 06 and 270 doesn't lag to far behind.

Thoughts?[/quote]


What you say makes sense in is right in line with the laws of physics. To run a light mag bullets is not why I use a mag. I use a mag to run heavy bullets rather quickly and that is where the mags run off from the standard caliber rounds in the energy charts.[/quote]

Only heavier bullets aren't needed to kill the same thing other calibers can. What yardage are you guys shooting at when hunting..... 1K?[/quote]


No one, or at least I did not say heavier bullets were needed to kill but you originally brought up and were speaking of energy levels of the 06 and 270 at 600 yards. At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy, your choice of words not mine. I also never said the 300 rum was needed or all it's energy was needed to kill at that range but it certainly does not hurt either.

Nope I keep shots 400 and less if at all possible.[/quote]

At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy,

Ummm..... look at the chart in the back of your Nosler manual.....the 150 and 160 .270 is real close, and the iddy bitty little bit of added v/e from the 300 doesn't mean diddly squat.... my choice of words.. friend. :wink:

I was told by Hornady that 1000 ft.lbs was required at 100 yards to kill big game.

certainly does not hurt either

no but this does....

Is this nessesary?

http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

On an antelope? I would think proper shot placement with a standard cartridge would suffice.....

 

[Guest]

To be clear, Mass is not Sectional Density. One could also easily say circumference is not area, volume is not length, and so forth. The two are not interchangeable.

Now, beyond that, I'll argue that SD is a great comparison, but it's not absolute. For instance, the SD of a 100gr .243cal bullet is .242. Compare that with the 100gr .257cal (.216), the 130gr .277cal (.213), the 150gr .308cal (.226), and the 180gr .338cal (.225) and it appears the .243cal bullet is superior in penetration and killing power. And yet, we all know that's not true. Obviously I exaggerated the differences in bore diameter to illustrate the point. But consider two much closer bullets in diameter, the .308cal 150gr (.226) and the .338cal 180gr (.225). These two bullets are similar in weight for caliber, and thus have similar SDs. They are relatively close in diameter, and are shot from cartridges generally designed to pursue similar game. Both are considered the lightest traditional cup and core style bullets suitable for medium to large ungulates. And yet, I'd sure rather have the .338cal 180gr if I were elk hunting, than the 150gr .308cal. And, I'd rather have either at 3000fps than at 2700fps. And in point of fact, the comparison between SDs continues across the scale of bullet weights for the two bore diameters, yielding similar results across the spectrum. Now, in reality, none of this means much until we introduce the final variable of velocity for consideration. It's velocity that creates energy from those marvelous SDs. If that were not the case, we'd all be well suited shooting at game with 150gr bullets from my 30-30WCF (which carry the same SD as the 180gr .338, remember...) and yet, I'd opt for more weight, diameter, and velocity if I were going after bigger game. I'd certainly opt for more velocity if I were going for shots longer than 200yds. One doesn't have to shoot out beyond 1k to see advantages in faster velocities. Reference my first post for that explanation.

It's pretty simple, to be sure. Shoot what you want. But, I have a theory much like Kodiak, in that I pick the right tool for the job. I like to shoot a variety, but I also like to shoot the biggest, fastest, flattest round I can accurately shoot, as it gives me the best chance of cleanly taking game.

Remember, compared to the hand thrown rock, the 22lr is a magnum.

As for Fotis antelope hunt with his 416, I can tell you why he used a 416. Because they don't make a 417. My suggestion is to worry less about what other people shoot and worry more about where your own bullets are landing. Good hunting to you.

 

[OU812]

At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy,

Ummm..... look at the chart in the back of your Nosler manual.....the 150 and 160 .270 is real close, and the iddy bitty little bit of added v/e from the 300 doesn't mean diddly squat.... my choice of words.. friend. :wink:

I was told by Hornady that 1000 ft.lbs was required at 100 yards to kill big game.

certainly does not hurt either

no but this does....

Is this nessesary?

Your right that cuts deep. How does that hurt? Don't worry I'll spoon feeding ya along.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

On an antelope? I would think proper shot placement with a standard cartridge would suffice.....[/quote]

Reading comprehension not a strong suit? I said ELK like animals. Let me guess. To you elk and antelope are one in the same? And as this pains me, your right, a standard caliber will work just fine for antelope just as it will for elk.


Your right your choice of words, I want no part of your choice of words friend. So let me get this straight. You are under the misguided impression that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.

 

[FOTIS]

longguner

This was a goat I shot a few years ago. Took out the WHOLE boiler room and she ran 136 yards with no heart or lungs to speak of and dropped.
http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

looks like an antelope to me.

ok antelope..

We usually call them speed goats. Like slang you know? :wink:


Is that all you got from my post????

 

[longguner]

you are under the impression misguided ion that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.

Misguided by Nosler manual #6?

Look at the numbers bro.... both bullet peeter out v/e wise down range.

 

[longguner]

At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy,

Ummm..... look at the chart in the back of your Nosler manual.....the 150 and 160 .270 is real close, and the iddy bitty little bit of added v/e from the 300 doesn't mean diddly squat.... my choice of words.. friend. :wink:

I was told by Hornady that 1000 ft.lbs was required at 100 yards to kill big game.

certainly does not hurt either

no but this does....

Is this nessesary?

Your right that cuts deep. How does that hurt? Don't worry I'll spoon feeding ya along.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

On an antelope? I would think proper shot placement with a standard cartridge would suffice.....

Reading comprehension not a strong suit? I said ELK like animals. Let me guess. To you elk and antelope are one in the same? And as this pains me, your right, a standard caliber will work just fine for antelope just as it will for elk.


Your right your choice of words, I want no part of your choice of words friend. So let me get this straight. You are under the misguided impression that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.[/quote]

I like my F150 basic, no frills truck just fine. And don't need no salesman to tell me otherwise.

 

[OU812]

you are under the impression misguided ion that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.

Misguided by Nosler manual #6?

Look at the numbers bro.... both bullet peeter out v/e wise down range.

My goodness your right my 300rum only has 2455 energy foot lbs at 600 yards compared to the 270 weatherby 160 NP at 1329 at 600 yards. Your right again they are one in the same. Please continue on as your knowledge base in thralls me.

 

[OU812]

At that range I can assure you an 06 in no way shape or form compares to my 300 rum in energy,

Ummm..... look at the chart in the back of your Nosler manual.....the 150 and 160 .270 is real close, and the iddy bitty little bit of added v/e from the 300 doesn't mean diddly squat.... my choice of words.. friend. :wink:

I was told by Hornady that 1000 ft.lbs was required at 100 yards to kill big game.

certainly does not hurt either

no but this does....

Is this nessesary?

Your right that cuts deep. How does that hurt? Don't worry I'll spoon feeding ya along.

http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=5&t=2691

On an antelope? I would think proper shot placement with a standard cartridge would suffice.....

Reading comprehension not a strong suit? I said ELK like animals. Let me guess. To you elk and antelope are one in the same? And as this pains me, your right, a standard caliber will work just fine for antelope just as it will for elk.


Your right your choice of words, I want no part of your choice of words friend. So let me get this straight. You are under the misguided impression that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.

I like my F150 basic, no frills truck just fine. And don't need no salesman to tell me otherwise.[/quote]


I'm happy for ya and would not want it any other way but don't waste your time trying to convince me your no frills F150 is a F350 supercab with all the fixins.

 

[Guest]

I'm assuming that in pursuit of a grizzly, longguner would be happily toting along his trusty .243 with a 100gr Partition, since the SD is .242, which is the same SD class as a 225gr 35cal (.251). Heck, even downrange energy is close. The 243 carries 1000lbs of energy out to 375yds (well beyond bear distances, generally). The 350RemMag only carries roughly 2k worth of energy at that distance - that's closer than the 270Win/300RUM comparison, right?

Of course, I'm not carrying a 243Win for Griz, but if longguner wishes to believe he's well equipped as such (which, using his logic, he is), more power to him. He can carry that big bear out in his base model F150 and not worry about blood getting all over his fancy truck.

 

[Wondermutt]

Where did you shoot it?

North Idaho. Does it matter?

 

[Guest]

Where did you shoot it?

North Idaho. Does it matter?

Now that's funny right there. I don't care who you are...

 

[FOTIS]

you are under the impression misguided ion that a 270 with a 150 gr bullet is in the same class energy wise as a 300 rum with a 200 AccuBond at 600 yards? Wow.

Misguided by Nosler manual #6?

Look at the numbers bro.... both bullet peeter out v/e wise down range.

If you're talking about energy #'s then those mean nothing. All they are is a common point of reference to compare kinetic energy.

 

[longguner]

Where did you shoot it?

North Idaho. Does it matter?

No wondermutt

where on the animal?

 

[longguner]

Fotis....

Says..............who?

If that's the case then long range competitors were amazed with O'Connors shots.

 

[FOTIS]

Say's anybody that knows, my friend. Talking energy here.

A 22-250 and a 45-70 have the same energy pending on load. What would you use to clobber a bear?

The whole thing is a compilation of velocity, bullet diameter, bullet construction, and shot placement.
All of the aforementioned together spell killing power.

So a 270 WSM can do what a 270 Win can do at 150 yards longer..... for example

 

[longguner]

Guess the bottom line is this gentlemen....

SHOT PLACEMENT... no matter how much MORE another has.

.243 @1000 lbs? Frontal area next to nothing

270 WSM verses .270 winchester....... apples to apples.

Anything else?

 

[FOTIS]

270 WSM verses .270 winchester....... apples to apples.

Not really Big apples to smaller apples. I know I own both.

So, Cool ..........
next subject :mrgreen:

 

[RiverRider]

Wow. Longguner,, it is obvious to me you are here only to stir up as much crap as you can. I think you should move along. You're not here to promote insight or knowledge. You want dissonance. See ya.

 

[Guest]

RR, I think you hit the nail on the head. One more for the ignore list.