Wildcats

[noslerpartition]

Since joyning this forum, I learned tons of new cartridge-names I had no idea they existed. For many, I still have no idea what they look like and how they perform...
With our laws on proof-shooting, wildcats are rather unusual.

Just let me know - are they really filling a gap, or is it just curiousity? Do they do better than what factory/saami/cip cartridges do?

 

[Thebear_78]

Generally they are rather redundant. There really aren’t that many gaps in existing cartridges. The place where they really seem to make a difference is when dealt with a specific platform, ie AR15, or expanding on a new bullet.

As bullets get longer and sleeker and rates of twist have to get faster to stabilize them. A good example is the 22 creedmoor that I have been playing with. While not terribly different than a 22-250, it is optimized for longer bullets and use in AI style magazines. The normal bullet ranges for 22-250 being 40-55gr and the bullet range for 22 creedmoor being 75-95gr.

The other wildcats I’ve played with have been purpose designed for use in AR15 style rifles. 277 wolverine, 6x45.

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[noslerpartition]

Thanks for the answer.
Couldn't a faster twist on the 22-250 have done the job?

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[Thebear_78]

Yes, but the extra capacity of the 22 creedmoor really comes in handy with the heavy .224 cal bullets. It has shoulder angles that lend to feeding thru detachable magazines. It also fills up a 2.88” magazine well without haveihg to push the bullet too far into the case, saving internal space for powder


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[noslerpartition]

What are you using it for?

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[Thebear_78]

Just targets and steel. The cartridge was originally designed around PRS Style competition and then long range varmint hunting.

It’s not going to stay a wildcat long. Hornady already has 22 creedmoor brass in thier 2019 catalog

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[joelkdouglas]

I guess the Mashburn is a Wildcat, so I’ll chime in.

It certainly does nothing today that other cartridges can’t do. The 7 Weatherby and 7 Dakota are similar in performance. The 7 STW a bit bigger case even. And even the good old 30-06 isn’t far behind any 7 or 300 mag out there.

For on game performance the argument is even weaker. Today’s bullets are really good and level the playing field for cartridges.

With both of the above stated I’m getting a second Mashburn made now. I kind of love the damn thing. Good brass that’s available from several makers because I make it from 300 Win Mag, great sleek 7 mm bullets, a good 3000 to 3200 FPS with elk bullets from 150 to 175 grains. Lots to love!


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[mjcmichigan]

Once upon a time, they did fill gaps. Weatherby, Remington and Winchester magnums kinda crushed it on the Magnum mania that ran from the 50’s to 2000...if you consider the WSM the end of the magnum craze.

One nice thing about wildcatting. It teaches you a lot from gun smithing to ballistics.

As Scottie why he loves his 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum....
Wicked fast 175’s in a 7mm that well under MOA.


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[Dwh7271]

The other guys pretty much covered it.
To answer your fast twist 22-250 question; imo yes. I just built a 22-250 AI in a 7 twist for heavies. Should be pretty much what the 22 Creed is but without the good brass (my preference would be Alpha for that if that matters?)
The original wildcats seemed to fill some perceived gaps prior to the advent of all the new powders and bullets. When we only had 4064, 4350, 4831, 7828 and the like along with a few others there were greater gaps than now. We also didn’t have the bullet diversity that we have now. Some of the more unique ones still fill a perceived gap in some folks opinions. I personally felt the WSMs needed a 338 and 358, so I’m building them. I thought the WSSMs should have a light, quick handling 6.5, so I’m building one of those too. Point is that sometimes it’s a combination of curiosity and the need for something “different “. I just like fooling with them is my only excuse. Allows for a lot of what if situations.
I have quite a few just to mess with. For me they’re a hoot.


Edit: Scotty hooked me on a Mashburn too. :grin:

 

[Thebear_78]

I have a boatload of that 243 WsSM brass if you need any for your 6.5 WSSM.

I was looking at the 22-250 AI but the 22 creedmoor gives more capacity and easier feeding.


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[Dwh7271]

Thanks.
Yessir, no 40 degree shoulder.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks.
Yessir, no 40 degree shoulder.

Funny how everyone knocks the 40* shoulder and complains about feeding problems which hasn't been my experience with the 35/AI I have. It feeds as slick as snot threw my CRPF M70 30-06 mag box that I had the rifle barrel drilled and chambered for the 35/AI. Kind of Like not having to constantly measure and trim brass which is a benefit from the 40* shoulder.
Even thought about having a 30-338/AI barrel made just for that reason to replace the 300 Wm.
Is it necessary no but I doubt if anyone else has one and if they do they are few and far between.

 

[Thebear_78]

The 40° shoulder on your whelen is little more than a blip compared to the 40° shoulder on something like a 22-250. I believe that has a lot to do with it


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[Europe]

Since joyning this forum, I learned tons of new cartridge-names I had no idea they existed. For many, I still have no idea what they look like and how they perform...
With our laws on proof-shooting, wildcats are rather unusual.

Just let me know - are they really filling a gap, or is it just curiousity? Do they do better than what factory/saami/cip cartridges do?

Frank, the short answer is "boys will be boys" and thank God for that.

Is something better or just different --rifle calibers, car engines, etc.

Like Bear mentioned, some are just fun to shoot and like Dewey mentioned he just enjoys playing around with different builds and loads..

But if your only using them to hunt with and especially with modern powders and bullets, not much has changed since the 6.5 x 55, 275 H & H, 30-06, 300 H & H, 35 Whelen, 375 H & H

The 275H & H is basically an obsolete caliber, but again with modern powders it is equivalent to the 7mm Weatherby. I bet Cheyenne runs into more people who have never heard of her 275 H & H, than Scotty does of his 35 Whelen.

Just something new, different and fun------and cheaper----- than a mistress which could also be considered new, different and fun.

 

[Thebear_78]

Not hard to see why the very small shoulder on the 35 whelen would still feed well compared to the very deep shoulder on the 22-250 AI


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[truck driver]

April;
(Just something new, different and fun-----and cheaper-----than a mistress which could also be considered new, different and fun.)
You naughty girl I know what your getting for Christmas (a lump of coal).
My wife got one for Christmas one year with a note, The Biggest Diamond in the rough I could find. -)
Merry Christmas!

 

[Guy Miner]

Some of our standard cartridges either started out as wildcats, or were inspired by very similar wildcats.

22-250 was a wildcat
6mm Rem was preceded by the wildcat 243 Rockchucker
25-06 was a wildcat from inception in the 1920's until standardized by Remington in the late 1960's

And more...

My recently acquired 6mm Creedmoor was developed by simply necking down the 6.5 Creedmoor. Was it a wildcat? Well, not for long!

There are so many cartridges available now... I don't know how manufacturers and distributors keep track.

Guy

 

[desertcj]

The creedmoor cases are nice because you dont have to fire form to get serviceable brass. I'll take 22 Creedmoor every time over a 22-250 AI. 6mm Creedmoor is nice too, a modern .243. I don't really think it can quite hang with a
243 AI, but it sure keeps up with a .243 just fine.

 

[Anonymous]

Wildcatting was a popular hobby back in the day, but less so today. We have so many established cartridges and existing wildcats...coming up with something "new" is pretty tough to do.

Modern powders and bullets have exacerbated this by adding significant capability to most existing cartridges to the point there are very few, if any, performance gaps across the entire field of cartridges.

While interesting to mess with, there isn't a practical reason to go through the hassle. Some of the better existing cartridges started life as wildcats, but that was back when the roster wasn't quite a crowded as it is today. The shooter who limits himself to standard chambers isn't giving up anything as far as field performance goes today. That probably wasn't true 75-100 years ago though.