WLR primer UPDATE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter OU812
- Start date
OU812,
sorry about bringing the bad luck to you. Do get in touch with Winchester just to let them know at the bare minimum. They can't make changes if they don't know they have a problem. I don't expect much from them in return as I figure it is a fluke occurrence.
The way I look at it, there are several possible things that could cause this. Obviously, a weakness in the primer cup where it is folded is likely. Also, there could have been a nick on the rim of the primer during priming of the case. Or the case could be abnormal as some have mentioned. The pocket could be oversized, out of round, or have a nick of material missing from the rim. The problem is identifying the issue after the failure. The rim on the primer pocket is damaged from the failure so who knows what it was like beforehand. If numerous failures happen within a lot, the problem will be with the primers themselves. But if it happens at random who knows.
My case prep includes cleaning and inspecting primer pockets, cleaning them with an RCBS pocket cleaning tool, and deburring the flash hole. If a primer drops into the pocket of a case with little or no resistance, I retire the case. If I note blackening around a primer after being fired I retire the case. My load was on the low end of recommended charge and I had no pressure signs. It was a neck sized case that had been fired once previously. Bullet point of impact was normal. The only thing I noticed was a wisp of smoke when I opened the bolt and then a blackened case head.
WLRM lot#EKL248G
sorry about bringing the bad luck to you. Do get in touch with Winchester just to let them know at the bare minimum. They can't make changes if they don't know they have a problem. I don't expect much from them in return as I figure it is a fluke occurrence.
The way I look at it, there are several possible things that could cause this. Obviously, a weakness in the primer cup where it is folded is likely. Also, there could have been a nick on the rim of the primer during priming of the case. Or the case could be abnormal as some have mentioned. The pocket could be oversized, out of round, or have a nick of material missing from the rim. The problem is identifying the issue after the failure. The rim on the primer pocket is damaged from the failure so who knows what it was like beforehand. If numerous failures happen within a lot, the problem will be with the primers themselves. But if it happens at random who knows.
My case prep includes cleaning and inspecting primer pockets, cleaning them with an RCBS pocket cleaning tool, and deburring the flash hole. If a primer drops into the pocket of a case with little or no resistance, I retire the case. If I note blackening around a primer after being fired I retire the case. My load was on the low end of recommended charge and I had no pressure signs. It was a neck sized case that had been fired once previously. Bullet point of impact was normal. The only thing I noticed was a wisp of smoke when I opened the bolt and then a blackened case head.
WLRM lot#EKL248G
- Thread starter
- #24
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
BD1 Yes I did decap the primer and did the best I could to get a close up picture of the primer showing the pinhole. This brass has now had 3 firings on it with the same load.
I also took the same case and seated a new WLR primer and with the force required to seat the new primer I would use the case again IF this would not have occurred.
I also took the same case and seated a new WLR primer and with the force required to seat the new primer I would use the case again IF this would not have occurred.
- Thread starter
- #25
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
ksubuck no bad luck brought to me, just found it odd that within a week or so 2 persons here had the exact same issue with the same primers. I have never, knock on wood even has a smidge of black around any primer after being fired. Like you and most everyone else I toss brass at the first sign of a primer seating to easily.
I have also reconfirmed that I suck at taking close up pictures.
I have also reconfirmed that I suck at taking close up pictures.
BD1
Beginner
- Nov 4, 2013
- 97
- 0
FWIW,
Olin Corp. manufactures the primers and if memory serves still owns the Winchester trademark. I did read several threads on other boards where this has been going on over the last 6 mo. to a year. Members on other boards did mention being reimbursed. It would be very interesting to hear from those affected that follow this up what comes of it.
Olin Corp. manufactures the primers and if memory serves still owns the Winchester trademark. I did read several threads on other boards where this has been going on over the last 6 mo. to a year. Members on other boards did mention being reimbursed. It would be very interesting to hear from those affected that follow this up what comes of it.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
I did a study for Bill on this exact issue with R-P primers a few years ago. In his rifle, the primer failed in hoop tension, at the corner and sheared the wall of the primer. My guess would be that the case primer pocket had a defect of some sort, or the primer did? Most primers walls are marginal in hoop strength to hold the full cartridge pressure of nearly 60 KSI.
Your primer appears to be somewhat mushroom shaped into the radius of the case. This would indicate to me that either your load is too hot for this primer or you may also have a short case (over formed) or excess headspace? This would allow the primer to mushroom into the radius of the case. Have you measured formed cases for headspace?
This phenomena is not uncommon in today's high pressure cartridges. Everything has to be just right for the system to work correctly in a modern cartridge.
Your primer appears to be somewhat mushroom shaped into the radius of the case. This would indicate to me that either your load is too hot for this primer or you may also have a short case (over formed) or excess headspace? This would allow the primer to mushroom into the radius of the case. Have you measured formed cases for headspace?
This phenomena is not uncommon in today's high pressure cartridges. Everything has to be just right for the system to work correctly in a modern cartridge.
I couldn't tell from the photos so I'll ask, are the primers in question the older nickle plated ones or the newer brass colored ones? I'm still using some nickle plated primers WLR and WLRM and haven't had a problem so far. I'm not so sure about the brass colored ones though.
Paul B.
Paul B.
- Thread starter
- #29
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
Oldtrader3 yes the primer does have a small mushroom to it. It seems I get these from time to time. Every once in a while when I seat a primer it sets deeper into the primer pocket then the rest so I attributed the small mushroom to the primer moving back against the bolt upon firing. I fired four more rounds after what I saw and the rest fired and looked as normal.
PJ yes these are the copper looking primers.
PJ yes these are the copper looking primers.
Darkhorse
Handloader
- Mar 14, 2014
- 819
- 172
I haven't shot any of the brass colored ones in a rifle yet, but I have shot some in pistol. I don't like them.
Pistol was my Ruger SBH .44 mag and since I bought it in '79 I've never had a misfire or a primer fail to ignite. That is until I tried the newer Winchester's. I had several that simply didn't ignite. They all did the second try but I can't have that in a weapon I carry against hogs in the bush.
I still have some CCI magnum pistol and I use those for serious loads.
Pistol was my Ruger SBH .44 mag and since I bought it in '79 I've never had a misfire or a primer fail to ignite. That is until I tried the newer Winchester's. I had several that simply didn't ignite. They all did the second try but I can't have that in a weapon I carry against hogs in the bush.
I still have some CCI magnum pistol and I use those for serious loads.
baltz526
Handloader
- Sep 25, 2005
- 1,074
- 8
I just picked up a brick of WLR primers. I will use them as normal. Nothing on this thread bothers me enough to not use them. But I would be unhappy about the bolt face damage.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
I had this happen in my 25-06 last year as well. Actually its happened twice with this batch anyway. No hot load by any means and every other thousand have been fine...
Didnt think much of it until I saw this thread.
I did extensive testing in this particular rifle and it absolutely loves the WLR primer. Only rifle I use a primer brand other then CCI.
Didnt think much of it until I saw this thread.
I did extensive testing in this particular rifle and it absolutely loves the WLR primer. Only rifle I use a primer brand other then CCI.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
No damage was done to my model 70 bolt face from what I can tell anyway either.
- Thread starter
- #34
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
Well I contacted Winchester and as expected they wanted the shell case and primer, UPS picked it up this morning. I'll post up any further info I receive from them. She did not know of any recall on the this lot of primers.
- Thread starter
- #35
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
I just got off the phone with OLIN corp. The lady said the primer I sent in had a stress fracture which cause the failure. They have requested that I send in my remaining primers so they can be disposed of. There is NO recall on these primers, I asked.
- Thread starter
- #37
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
SJB358":py6enua2 said:
They are going to send me a check. They have done what I feel is an excellent job CS wise. They once again asked about my rifle and bolt face to see if I wanted to take it to a GS to have it checked out.
Your right Scotty. Only thing worse than trying to make an 06 work is if it were a Winchester rifle. HAHA
- Nov 4, 2004
- 25,147
- 8,393
Bill,
Looks like Olin did a stand up job for you.
I hope you are able to send the primers, its a PITA these days.
JD338
Looks like Olin did a stand up job for you.
I hope you are able to send the primers, its a PITA these days.
JD338
- Thread starter
- #39
OU812
Handloader
- Apr 18, 2006
- 2,099
- 2
JD338":1rny8qdz said:
Yes they did Jim. They are sending me a box that UPS will come and pick up.
Oldtrader3
Ammo Smith
- Nov 6, 2009
- 8,406
- 5
That is the right course of action by W-W, Bill. I am glad that they rose to the occasion and took expedient care of your problem. Good CS reaction on their part.
