257 Roberts revisited

[Aberhan]

I sincerely believe the 257 Roberts is a classic cartridge that deserves a better fate than the dust bin of history. As such here is what I have done to restore this cartridge to everything that I believe Ned Roberts intended it to be. The cartridge on the right is the standard factory offering. The one one the left is one of my 120 grain handloads for my chamber with added freebore. You can see the advantages of case capacity and seating the bullet closer to the lands. I can actually move this out a few thou more even.

 

[Aberhan]

The original 257 Roberts was loaded as I recall to a very anemic 48,000 lbs. pressure. The newer SAAMI specifications has raised this to 58,000 in the designated +P loads. Still shy of the 60,000 - 65,000 for comparable centre fire rifle cartridges.

 

[JD338]

Love the 257 Roberts. I have a Remington 700 Classic chambered in the 257 Bob and settled on the Nosler 115 gr BT. It’s a little hammer on WT deer.

JD338

 

[PJGunner]

Interesting. I have two rifles chambered to the .257 Roberts. The Ruger #1 B came with several boxes of the now long gone Norma 100 gr. load which shoots less than MOA in the Ruger. The other rifle is a Winchester M70 Featherweight that has a long action but the magazine is blocked for the shorter cartridge, So far, I haven't been able to get that rifle to group worth a damn.
When I bought the Ruger, it came with six boxes of that Norma ammo. I've only run some from one box and I have 6 rounds left from that box. I'm thinking of running two 3 shot groups with that six rounds over the chronograph and on paper at the same time. If it groups well, I'll see if I can duplicate the load and also try it in the Ruger. I also have a supply of the Hornady 117 gr. round nose bullets that I have yet to try. Maybe they'll work and as oth rifles are modern and strog, maybe get a bt more zip than from factory.
PJ

 

[Hunter26]

My favorite cartridge and like JD338, my first was in a Rem 700 Classic. Still have the rifle but added an Encore pistol barrel in the same caliber. 100gr Partitions and 110gr Accubonds are my favorite. Wish one of the premium brass makers would do a run of Roberts brass.

 

[Slimfinn]

The neighbor gifted my wife his, it is a Browning BBR, We've shot it a couple times but nothing serious, I have some nosler partitions, both 115 and 129, that have a short ogive that were made for the roberts that i need to develop a load for

 

[Aberhan]

Nice, there is no loading data for bullets above 120 grain for the 257 Roberts. But now there are 25 caliber bullets available in 128, 129, 134 and 135 grains, possibly more that I’m not aware of. I had a fast twist barrel put on my recently built 257, specifically to try the longer heavier bullets. I have some 128 grain ELD-X loaded up that I haven’t tried yet. I extrapolated load data from the 25 Creedmoor which has close to the same case capacity, although rated for higher pressures. I’m using 39.0 grains of IMR 4831 and going up the ladder in increments of 39.0, 39.2, 39.4 and 39.6 . I don’t anticipate any problems and if I don’t see pressure signs I will keep going up in increments of .20. I am looking for the best accuracy not necessarily the most velocity. I have found in my experience the most accurate loads are rarely the hottest. I believe the 257 Roberts can hold its own against any contender of the .257 calibers. Including the 25 Creedmoor but I will know soon enough. As a hunting rifle the 257 Roberts has already proven itself, I’m hoping it will do the same as a target rifle. I have achieved groups of 2 1/2 inch at 320 yards which is more important to me than 1 inch at 100 yards. Incidentally this is with a Vortex Diamondback 3-9 tactical not an expensive target scope. Not that I’m trying to dump on the 25 Creedmoor, I think it’s a fine cartridge. But I would rather try to breathe new life into an old classic, time tested cartridge. Enjoy yours, they are hard to find. As an afterthought I don’t really want to compare it to other 25’s but rather the 243 Winchester which almost single handedly contributed to the demise of the “Bob”.

 

[frankm]

The 257 on a long action and a quick twist barrel eould open lots of eyes… right with a 25 Creedmoor and nipping on a 25-06 !!

 

[Aberhan]

Interesting. I have two rifles chambered to the .257 Roberts. The Ruger #1 B came with several boxes of the now long gone Norma 100 gr. load which shoots less than MOA in the Ruger. The other rifle is a Winchester M70 Featherweight that has a long action but the magazine is blocked for the shorter cartridge, So far, I haven't been able to get that rifle to group worth a damn.
When I bought the Ruger, it came with six boxes of that Norma ammo. I've only run some from one box and I have 6 rounds left from that box. I'm thinking of running two 3 shot groups with that six rounds over the chronograph and on paper at the same time. If it groups well, I'll see if I can duplicate the load and also try it in the Ruger. I also have a supply of the Hornady 117 gr. round nose bullets that I have yet to try. Maybe they'll work and as oth rifles are modern and strog, maybe get a bt more zip than from factory.
PJ

I have used IMR 4831 with good success pushing the 117 grain bullets. I settled on 42 grains as the most accurate although I did experiment with different increments up to 43.0 grains.

The 257 on a long action and a quick twist barrel eould open lots of eyes… right with a 25 Creedmoor and nipping on a 25-06 !!

I have done some testing just today with Hornady 128 grain ELD-X and IMR 4831. I started with 39.0 grains and worked up to 39.6 they all shot reasonably accurate with the best group using 39.4 grains. No alarming pressure signs, unfortunately I don’t have a chronograph to measure velocity. I’m sure I could safely push the limits higher but I am more interested in accuracy than velocity. I noticed there was very little difference in point of impact between the 128 and 120 grains. With the 120’s I use 42 grains of IMR 4831.

 

[PJGunner]

I tend to treat the .257 Roberts the same way I treat the 7x57 Mauser.
One reason is both can do a lot better that what factory or SAAMI declares to be safe. Ge reason for the light loadings is be cause one, the 7x57 came in early in 1893 and 1895 mUaer rifles that lawyers have declared t be toow ea for modern loads. I strongly disagree but I''ll come back to that in a minute. Quite a few custom rifle builder and home mechanics converted those 93 and 95 Mauser rifles to the .257 Roberts by a simple barrel change. They'd load them either accordingly or not depending on human nature. "Let's see just how far I can get with this cartridge." FWIW, I'm kind in that group but my goal is the hiest speed with the best accuracy possible and I have more than a few rifles that meet that standard.

So let's take a look at the M93 and M95 Mauser rifles. One drawback is they close on cocking rather than how most bolt actions do today. No big deal as it's easy to get used to and take into account the British SMLE Enfield is considered one of the fastest rapid fire bolt actions in the world and they cock on the closing stroke.

The big hangup is the design does not handle escaping gas very well and should you blow a primer of get a case separation, whole or partial you will get a snootful in your face. No fun. However, with the exception of the Spanish Oviedo arsenal versions and I may exclude the ones stamped 1916 all the others were made in Germany. Knowing how technical Germans can be, do you think Mauser ever made crappy weak rifles? I sure don't. I seriously would love to find someone's custom in 7x57 based on one of the actions mentioned a d while I would load some fairly stiff loads, they wouldn't be quite as stiff as for my 98 Mauser custom but they also would not be the wimpy loads recommended by SAAMI. Most likely only about one grain less than for the 98 Mauser.

Along about 1946/47 and into the 1950s, companies like Remington and Winchester placed ads in magazines literally condemning all those milsurp guns that you saw in the ads from Ye Olde Hunter and the like. They claimed that they were unsafe, inaccurate amd so on. Guess people didn't listn as on could buy a 1917 Enfield for about$35 IIRC. The one I got was made by Winchester. The one I have now is an Eddystone which I think was part of Remington. It's somebody's bubba attempt at a custom that never got finished. I just use it along with a butchered Colt single action as stuff not to do for Hunter Ed classes. It is safe to shoot though whereas the Colt is not.

More than just the .257 "Bob" and 7x57 have been kept either lower pressure or downed in pressure in the lat ten of more years. Why is the factory .280 kept at 30-06 pressure level when the .270 is not? Same for factory loads for the .35 Whelen which is definitely underloaded. Those two were kept low by SAAMI at Remington's request. They wanted to run them in their semi-auto rifles and feared that they might be damaged if run at the cartridge's full potential. I can run a 160 gr. Speer two core Grand Slam past 2900 FPS with great accuracy and brass has been loaded at five times. Primer pockets still quite tight.

I apologize if this sort of rambled a bit but it all ties in. SAAMI specifies the proper Maximum Allowable Pressure (MAP) for every cartridge.Sometimes it's at a manufacturor's request, some time it's arbitrary and some times, as in the older Mausers, large companies and their lawyers may influence the MAP for a given cartridge.
PJ

 

[Blkram]

The 257 on a long action and a quick twist barrel eould open lots of eyes… right with a 25 Creedmoor and nipping on a 25-06 !!

I have read a couple of notes in a couple of hunting magazines, about the 257 AI (Improved) that Hornady is supposedly working on.
This is also intriguing to me, and I have already decided that I will be looking to build one next year.
I will be looking for a LH long action rifle in 25-06 or 270 Win as a donor for this build, and will again go with a Benchmark 24" 1:7.5 barrel to use the 128 gr ELD-X and 131 gr TGK bullets, and thereby have both a 257 Bob, and an improved version with a fast twist barrel for the heavier bullets to produce 100-200 fps more than the 25 CM. (May use the CM for target shooting and the 257 AII for hunting...but we'll see how it turns out!) 3000 fps with the 131 gr bullet should be a deadly combo on antelope!

Either would be fun to hunt antelope with in Africa as well as pronghorn here; I know I still need a Common and King's springbok, as well as a Kalahari to complete the springbok slam! And a Limpopo bushbuck. (And maybe a mountain reedbuck, and a white-flanked impala.)