.1 vs .02 digital powder scales

[TackDriver284]

I have the old RCBS digital powder scale that I have been using for years and it measures .1 grain, would a .02 scale help in accuracy at long range? There are scales that cost thousands of dollars that measures by the kernal, but its outrageously high in value and not looking to spend that kind of money. $200 to $300 is my budget. Is the GemPro 250 a great scale? Pros and cons?

 

[DrMike]

Short answer--the GemPro is a fine scale. Will accuracy to 0.02 grains make a difference in your accuracy? No. You can't take advantage of the minute differences you will generate. Accuracy in measuring to 0.1 grain is finer than we can take advantage of.

 

[Wyo7200]

Take your fps and divide it by your powder charge to get your fps per grain. Take that value and divide it by .1 and you'll see that per .1, your in the single digits of fps. At that point, variance of neck tension causes more of an effect that could be an issue at long distances.

 

[salmonchaser]

Someone paid attention in math and statistics. A great explanation of relevance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Teknys]

Using QL, I used the 6.5 Creedmoor as the example:
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.00gns = 3089 fps
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.02gns = 3090 fps
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.04gns = 3092 fps
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.06gns = 3093 fps
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.08gns = 3094 fps
ABLR 129gn and RL26 @ 51.10gns = 3096 fps

So approximation: 0.02gn = about 1fps and 0.10gn = 6 fps

Interesting question. I know for me I can't see the .1 difference in my shooting.

 

[jimbires]

here are a few questions I have for you .

what is the case capacity of the ammo you are loading ? a tenth or two means a lot more in a very small cartridge than it does in a large capacity cartridge .

if you are getting fliers, can you rule out powder charge if it's measured to + / - a tenth ?

what distance are you planning to shoot to ?

hunting ammo , or match target ammo ?

what increments of powder are you doing load development at ?

have you looked at the A&D fx120i ? here is a link . it has gone up in price since I bought mine , but it is a nice scale . these guy were the best price going when I bought mine . these are priced in canadian , so do the money exchange rate . it's a bit of a run around to order but I received mine in short time . I'm very pleased , and would buy it again .
http://cambridgeenviro.com/productDetai ... lance-5780

 

[truck driver]

I don't know the exchange rate, what is $700 Canadian in US dollars?

 

[DrMike]

I don't know the exchange rate, what is $700 Canadian in US dollars?

About $526.50 at today's exchange.

 

[Teknys]

I googled: $700 Can = $540.25 US. That's the exchange rate as of this morning.

OOPS I see Dr. Mike beat me to it.

 

[DrMike]

Exchange rates fluctuate throughout the day as the markets change. As Canadians, we are keenly aware of the exchange rates. I just happened to be on a bank web site as Rodger's query was posted.

 

[kraky1]

Teknys is dead on the nuts with his quick load predictions. While back a well respected guy over at a benchresters forum came up with exactly the same info for a 308. I have a scale that will do measurements to .02. Most stick powders windup being .02 grains per kernel. This guy came up with the conclusion that although these fancy scales can do those measurements each kernel of powder was worth 1 foot per second. Which is exactly what he had for his Creedmoor predictions.
That said I will give you a link to a scale that I bought and I like but it isn't always perfect you must warm it up and calibrate it.... still for the money I would buy it again in a heartbeat for under $100 to my door.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Powder-Scale/BE1188

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the exchange rate reply. I bought a ballistics product scale for under $50 to weigh my cases for h2o cap sometime ago and it works great for that purpose. I have tried to use it to measure powder charges but you can't consistently weigh 1/2gr charge weights or .1gr increments when trickling powder. That's one of the reasons I still use my RCBS 10-10 scale.
The grizzly scale looks great and wish I had seen it before I bought my Ballistics product scale.

 

[kraky1]

I used my bald eagle to test my technique on my 10:10. I've got 60 year old eyes with the start of cataracts and some floaters.
I have a really hard time telling exactly when the lines match up... but for some reason feel that as soon as the line on the scale starts Rising above the line on the frame I can pick that up. So I set my scale a hair Light and as soon as I see the mismatch I call it good. I threw 10 charges on my 10:10 and checked them on the bald eagle and found that I was plus or minus .04 grains.
That's plus or minus 2 FPS... pretty hard to argue with the results on the 10:10. BTW I found that my Hornady auto dispenser has twice the variance of my 10:10 which makes it still pretty darn good too!
Here's the bald eagle with a 1 kernal dropping Omega powder trickler....

 

[kraky1]

Here's a place you can really learn some crazy ideas.... many of these guys are pretty flat-out astonishing.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/?board=2.0

Did you ever notice in a lot of gun rag testing the loads with the lowest ES very rarely are the best Shooters? pretty often its some of the mid pack..... even worst ones as far as es consistancy. Of course here they're only testing at 100 yards.

These guys were talking one day about Barrel Whip and changes in velocity up or down from a midpoint. An interesting point was made I'd have to agree with.... if your Barrel is in an upward moving mode and you have a shell go off that is slightly slower it exits a hair later but it's all pretty much self correcting. If your Barrel is on a downward moving mode and your bullet comes out a hair slower it's actually a double whammy. So sometimes although we strive to have 0 es there may be a reason why sometimes having some almost seems to have virtually no effect. This is a crazy Hobby and sometimes we chase the fine points too hard...... spending time trying to find that magical load is probably far more important than getting ourselves down to tiny tiny differences.

 

[Wincheringen]

If you're going to spend $300, take a look at one of the powder dispensers. The RCBS is quite popular, I have the PACT version and I'm quite happy with it. My 6.5 Creedmoor is sub .25 MOA out to 600 yards using it.

 

[TackDriver284]

here are a few questions I have for you .

what is the case capacity of the ammo you are loading ? a tenth or two means a lot more in a very small cartridge than it does in a large capacity cartridge .

if you are getting fliers, can you rule out powder charge if it's measured to + / - a tenth ?

what distance are you planning to shoot to ?

hunting ammo , or match target ammo ?

what increments of powder are you doing load development at ?

have you looked at the A&D fx120i ? here is a link . it has gone up in price since I bought mine , but it is a nice scale . these guy were the best price going when I bought mine . these are priced in canadian , so do the money exchange rate . it's a bit of a run around to order but I received mine in short time . I'm very pleased , and would buy it again .
http://cambridgeenviro.com/productDetai ... lance-5780

I have a 6 BR, .223, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 x 284, .308 , 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, and only the Magnums are for hunting short and long range, the others are competition rifles. I shoot up to 1,000 yards or more if available, for load development I find a nice load on QL
( just got it recently ), and work up in .2 grain increments if I find a .5 MOA load. Some of my rifles shoot .1 to .3 mostly. Last time I made a 5 shot 2.5 inch group at 600 yards with the 6.5 x 284 in 12 - 15 mph crosswind. Actually was one inch vertically and 2 inches horizontally due to wind. The .223 , 6 and 6.5 cases are small and would like the .02 grain scales for them. Hope that answers most of your questions.

 

[preacher]

I never did any long range shooting for competition, rocks is all I've shot out to 1000yds, and that was with an M1A and a Garand, 800yds with an M4 clone, various hunting rifles. I have never had , nor wanted to use, the kind of rifles that "might" could tell a difference in minute, scientifically put together ammo, ha. After I did my time in the Army in an 8" howitzer unit in the Fire Direction Center, my grey matter was "kinda worn down to the white meat", ha. The simple life of iron sighted 30-30s again were a joy. When I started handloading, I used the RCBS balance scale, and though tedious, it worked just fine. Later in life I went digital and Oh what joy! I gave that balance beam scale away to a new handloader. The most I do now is use good prepped brass (deburred flash holes, primer pocket cut, or Norma/Nosler/lapua) always set my COAL properly and use my .1 RCBS digital scale. I don't have the time or desire to do more, and I still end up with ammo that is more accurate than I am on a day to day basis, ha. Its a great sport/hobby and no law against being as obcessive with handloading as a fly fishermen is with tying their own "perfect" fly! I'm also the kind of fly fisherman that ends up popping off my fly anyhow, so the $2 Sportswarehouse model works for me! ha. I do enjoy reading about the accuracy techniques in my down time, and I've learned much vicariously doing so...but my best (albeit via team effort) long range shot has still been a 1st round hit on a truck at 11 miles with that 8 inch howitzer! :lol:

 

[TackDriver284]

I was not able to find the MXX-123 scale, would anyone lead me to the right place to look on the net for a .02 scale on a 400 to 600 dollar budget? I just cannot afford the Prometheus. Thanks

 

[jimbires]

here are a few questions I have for you .

what is the case capacity of the ammo you are loading ? a tenth or two means a lot more in a very small cartridge than it does in a large capacity cartridge .

if you are getting fliers, can you rule out powder charge if it's measured to + / - a tenth ?

what distance are you planning to shoot to ?

hunting ammo , or match target ammo ?

what increments of powder are you doing load development at ?

have you looked at the A&D fx120i ? here is a link . it has gone up in price since I bought mine , but it is a nice scale . these guy were the best price going when I bought mine . these are priced in canadian , so do the money exchange rate . it's a bit of a run around to order but I received mine in short time . I'm very pleased , and would buy it again .
http://cambridgeenviro.com/productDetai ... lance-5780

I have a 6 BR, .223, 6.5 Creed, 6.5 x 284, .308 , 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, and only the Magnums are for hunting short and long range, the others are competition rifles. I shoot up to 1,000 yards or more if available, for load development I find a nice load on QL
( just got it recently ), and work up in .2 grain increments if I find a .5 MOA load. Some of my rifles shoot .1 to .3 mostly. Last time I made a 5 shot 2.5 inch group at 600 yards with the 6.5 x 284 in 12 - 15 mph crosswind. Actually was one inch vertically and 2 inches horizontally due to wind. The .223 , 6 and 6.5 cases are small and would like the .02 grain scales for them. Hope that answers most of your questions.

if I were doing what you are doing , I'd buy a .02 scale .

 

[jimbires]

I was not able to find the MXX-123 scale, would anyone lead me to the right place to look on the net for a .02 scale on a 400 to 600 dollar budget? I just cannot afford the Prometheus. Thanks

the link I gave above is for a scale like this , in that price range too .