165 or 180 gr Elk and Mule Deer in my 30-06

[Rol_P]

In my broad one season experience I was very pleased using Nosler 180 Accubonds in my Rem 700 CDL for my first Elk and Mule deer.
Has anyone found a significant difference in accuracy and performance between the 165 and 180 bullets? I started with 180's on the recommendation of my outfitter.
Thanks in advance for all suggestions.

 

[Vince]

I've only shot 180gr Barnes TTSX in my 30-06.
That's likely what I would go with.

 

[JD338]

Every rifle is different so you would have to try the 165 gr bullets to see how they shoot.
Although both bullet weights will work on deer and elk, I would prefer the heavier 180 gr weight for additional energy and penetration.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

Jim has given excellent advice. The 165/168 grain bullets will work on elk, and assuredly work well on mulies, when the shot is less than ideal, the 180 gives more comfort.

 

[Guy Miner]

That's the way I see it.

The 165's are fine, and normally what I use. But the 180, or even 200 gr bullets, will give greater penetration. Not needed on mule deer, but I could see it becoming an issue on a big ol' elk.

If your 180 gr load is shooting well... Why change a thing?

Re mule deer, heck they're easy to drop. Over the last eight or ten years I've shot most of mine with a 100 - 115 gr .25 caliber bullet. My son claims that's too much gun, and happily dumps deer with a 95 gr .24 cal bullet... :mrgreen:

Guy

 

[sask boy]

The 180gr. AB or Partition in the 06 is a excellent Elk & Mulie bullet. If you have had success why change. My Dad once told me if ain't broke don't fix it :wink:!

Blessings,
Dan

 

[Rol_P]

Thanks for all the confirmations Fellas.. My outfitter was right on target, (pun intended). I have been on the sidelines with a health issue that is 100% cleared now, just have too much time to think and analyze.. second guess myself. My '06 will regularly shoot my handloads to 1 1/2 to 2" at 100yds. Sometimes I get two touching and one flier. Am hoping to get bug hole groups which I realize are not necessary to kill an Elk or Mule deer. I will get back to loading and shooting in the near future.
Thanks again.. Rol

 

[wildgene]

...6 of one, half doz. of the other, the 165gr. will give you slightly more velocity & a small amount less drop @, say, 400yds., the 180gr. will give you slightly more energy, &, probably a small amount more penetration (compared SD's). I shoot either or w/ my .300 WSM w/ zero complaints so far from either elk or mule deer, no real significant "morededder" between the two...

 

[JD338]

Thanks for all the confirmations Fellas.. My outfitter was right on target, (pun intended). I have been on the sidelines with a health issue that is 100% cleared now, just have too much time to think and analyze.. second guess myself. My '06 will regularly shoot my handloads to 1 1/2 to 2" at 100yds. Sometimes I get two touching and one flier. Am hoping to get bug hole groups which I realize are not necessary to kill an Elk or Mule deer. I will get back to loading and shooting in the near future.
Thanks again.. Rol

That is minute of elk accuracy but maybe we can help you get to the bug hole groups. Give us some more info. What rifle and scope are you using? What is your current load?

JD338

 

[Rol_P]

The rifle is a Rem 700CDL, (left hand) new spring of 2013, Zeiss 2-10 HD5 scope.
The factory tigger was replaced with a Timney, barrel free floated and the action was glass bedded at the recoil lug and about the first 2" of the barrel.

My go to load for hunting last year was new Nosler cases, WLR primer, 61.0 gr Reloder 22 and the Nosler 180gr AccuBond. I may be the limiting factor in the quest for small groups but I think the rifle should do better as my hand loads for my Rem 700 in 270 Win routinely are 1" or stightly less.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Rol

 

[DrMike]

Doesn't sound as if there is anything wrong with that setup--fine rifle, good adjustments, excellent glass. You are about ready to rock with that. Your load should be more than adequate for anything you might stalk here in North America. Have you chronographed your loads? I would be more interested in your standard deviation than your velocity. Velocity is likely more than adequate. If the SD is good (1% or less), you can play with seating depth and tighten groups in most instances. AccuBonds appear to give great accuracy in many instances when there is a bit of jump to the lands. On several loads in various rifles, a jump of as much as 0.100 inches made an adequate load into an excellent load.

 

[Vince]

No offense but if I was getting 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 Yards, assuming I read that correctly, I'd keep looking if it were me. This is providing it is the rifle and the load and not the shooter.

Is your action bedded and barrel free floated? That and a trigger job, which you've already taken care of, are all I've done with my 30-06 and it shoots three shots under a dime, consistently, at 100 Yards. You may want to try a different bullet and powder combination but I'd start with a different powder first. If things don't get better, or they get worse, I'd try a different bullet.

I tried three different bullets and weights, as well as four powders, in my .338 Win Mag before selecting a bullet and powder combo. Right now it's shooting 0.6" consistently but I'm not done yet. I'm going to try to bring it in tighter this weekend by increasing the powder charge by half a grain and see what I get as I'm half a grain off book max right now. If that don't work I'll play with the seating depth a bit. I load to book COAL when starting as it gives me a good baseline to start from.

Max loads are not always the most accurate nor can every rifle handle them as each rifle barrel is a creature unto itself. My 25-06 likes a load that is true mid-range, 48.5 grains of IMR 4350, with a 100 grain Nosler Partition and 51.0 grains with a Hornady 87 grain SP. Neither of those loads are close to max. I show pressure signs way before I get to the max load in the book.

Look at a manual and eliminate the lowest and highest pressure charge and load three shot groups to test. If you seem to be getting better accuracy at the higher end of the powder charge scale then maybe come back at a later day and test your best load compared to the highest charge, providing your rifle handles the pressure, and see what happens.

Me, I use IMR 4350 in my 30-06 but from what I hear there are a lot of good powders for the 30-06. I just happen to have a lot of IMR 4350 around. Unlike others I've not had much luck with playing with seating depth. Small, minute really, changes in seating depth may bring a load in 0.1" or so but I've not had it take a 1.5" load and magically make it a 0.3" load.

Good luck and keep us posted on how this turns out for you. I'm not a benchrest shooter but I am a stickler for accuracy. Col. Whelen said it best, "Only accurate rifles are interesting." When, or if, you find that accurate load for your rifle you will have a feeling that I cannot put in to words. It's what keeps me loading and tinkering with rifles.

Vince

Rol,

I went back and read the post again and see where the rifle has been bedded and floated.
Given all that I'd try a boat tail bullet and then a flat base bullet. The one thing I've noticed, and I could be wrong, is that rifles can show a marked preference for a certain bullet. It's my job to find that bullet.

My 25-06 shoots Hornady 87 grain SP and 100 grain SP, flat base, as well as the 100 grain Nosler Partition. Don't even try to get it to shoot a Ballistic Tip as it won't do it worth a flip.

My 30-06, only load I tried to work up, shoots the 180 grain Barnes TTSX as they were the only .30 cal bullets I had on hand at the time.

My .338 Win Mag is shooting the Barnes 210 grain TSX after trying the AccuBond and Hornady 250 grain, 225 grain, and 200 grain bullets. I then tried the Barnes 210 grain TSX BT and it worked like magic.

Now that I know that the two rifles favor a boat tailed bullet, 30-06 and .338 WM, if I were to work up another bullet load I'd look at a boat tailed bullet with the same ogive. For the 25-06 I'd be looking at nothing but a flat based bullet.

Just some food for thought mate.

 

[JD338]

The rifle is a Rem 700CDL, (left hand) new spring of 2013, Zeiss 2-10 HD5 scope.
The factory tigger was replaced with a Timney, barrel free floated and the action was glass bedded at the recoil lug and about the first 2" of the barrel.

My go to load for hunting last year was new Nosler cases, WLR primer, 61.0 gr Reloder 22 and the Nosler 180gr AccuBond. I may be the limiting factor in the quest for small groups but I think the rifle should do better as my hand loads for my Rem 700 in 270 Win routinely are 1" or stightly less.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Rol

What is your COL and how far off the lands?

JD338

 

[Rol_P]

Thanks for the continuing suggestions Fellas, If I remember correctly, my comparator OAL to the lands is 3.860" last time I measured it. The comparator OAL of the 180 Accubonds is 3.745". By comparison Federal Premium 180 Accubonds run @ 3.620". My velocity with the hand loads has run around 2,750 which is pretty close to Federal Premium Factory 180 AccuBond. I do not have the SD figures for the hand loads and it will be a while before I can run them over my chronograph to see what the SD is.

My press is an old Lyman Spartan cast iron single stage. RCBS Comp. FL 30-06 dies with an o-ring between the press and the bottom of the lock ring to allow the die to "self center" in the press. I try to bump the case shoulder just .002" to maintain consistency.

I do use a Lee Factory crimp die on the recommendation of a friend at the local gun shop that I trust to give me suggestions. Just putting a moderate crimp to insure no slippage under recoil in a hunting situation. My load development is with single cartridge in the chamber, none in the magazine.
I have some CCI BR primers that I have not had a chance to load and try yet. Also have a supply of IMR 4350 to go back to and try again.

As a side note off topic, if you have not heard of Ben Carson and his book "One Nation" I think it is a good read written by an excellent mind. I have only finished Part I but believe that he is spot on with excellent advice for the whole population of the USA.

Regards, Rol

 

[Guy Miner]

My go to load for hunting last year was new Nosler cases, WLR primer, 61.0 gr Reloder 22 and the Nosler 180gr AccuBond.

I think that you've got one heck of a combination going there. Excellent components. Although I've settled on mostly using H4350 with my .30-06, I did use RL-22 for a few years, with the 180's, and had good results.

Your 1.5 MOA is satisfactory for most big game hunting. I've filled a fair number of tags with rifles having such accuracy, and it's nothing to sneeze at.

Consider building some of the same load, without using the Lee crimp die. I see no need for it in this application. Neck tension alone should be sufficient.

I do like the idea of that .30 cal, 180 gr AccuBond at about 2750 fps mv. You should see excellent on-game performance!

Regards, Guy

 

[Vince]

My go to load for hunting last year was new Nosler cases, WLR primer, 61.0 gr Reloder 22 and the Nosler 180gr AccuBond.

Consider building some of the same load, without using the Lee crimp die. I see no need for it in this application. Neck tension alone should be sufficient.

Regards, Guy

I agree with the above in bold.

 

[DON]

Rol P,
I agree with Guy too. You have excellent components and a good rifle set up. With a little more range time and tweaking of the load I'm sure you could tighten up that load. Stay with it buddy. :wink:

The 30-06 has accounted for a lot of Game killed over the years with 165 & 180 bullets. The AccuBond is a proven bullet, shoot it with confidence.

Don

 

[billbam]

I took my first Elk and Muley with an 30-06 as most of the guys I had been hunting with did. Most of us were using the 180 Partitions. My load with them was the same as yours, 61 grs R-22. I did not have to seat them way out and was around 3.340 OL in which they shot very well. That was in a Remington too. The Weatherby shoots that load almost as well also. I would tweak it some and would bet you will find the sweet spot with that load. Good luck

 

[Guy Miner]

The long-time .30-06 users here are a great group. I love the mindset, something like this:

"Well yeah, of course the .30-06 is going to kill your _________ just fine."

"This bullet? That bullet? Just go find a _______ and shoot it. You'll be packing meat to the truck shortly after."

Not a lot of worry about high BC bullets. Not a lot of worry about breaking 3,000 fps. No worry about anything, just the recognition that it's plenty of cartridge for North American game, and likely game around the world, in most hunting situations. Heck, it doesn't even beat up the shooter.

Just sort of a matter of fact "pass those 180's will you?" kind of a thing. :mrgreen: Love it.

Guy

 

[DrMike]

Hope you're no gloating, Guy. :grin: The '06 will get 'er done under about any circumstances.