168 Berger VLD Hunting Bullets for 30-06

[FOTIS]

Pop,

Thanks for running the quick load. I shot 58.0 & 59.0 loads of RL-17 this past week-end. Produced high 2800's -2904 fps with both loads using BR-2 Primers, groups were not so good though.I want to try CCI250 Mag as they helped tighten the groups with 165 Ballistic Tip. I'm seating out to max on the magazine tongue, Rem. 700 22" barrel, cannot get very close to the lands. Guess I'll have to play with the powder charge somewhat. I want to return to H4350 and try CCI250 too. Just need more time at the range.

Don

Keep at it Don....

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the input you guys, heading to the loading bench this morning to load some more. Will try to get out this week end. Got some family things going on. Will keep you posted with pics as it unfolds.

Don

 

[C.Smith]

Well hope this helps but I went and risked life and limb to dig my reloading log out of the storage unit, LOL. Using CCI BR primers I started with:

53.5 grains of H4350 with an average velocity of 2575 and ES 28.00 and SD 14.42
54.5 grains of H4350 average velocity of 2639 fps and ES 13.14 and SD 6.55
55.5 grains H4350 average velocity of 2703 ES 16.29 and SD 8.71
56.5 grains H4350 average velocity of 2763 and ES 30.25 and SD 15.39
57.5 grains H4350 average velocity of 2785 ES 16.70 and SD 9.79

I only had notes of accuracy on a couple of these for some reason, not sure what happened there. 54.5 was 1.08" and 55.5 was 1.09", but I'm not the best shot yet, something I'm still working on. I can say that I was not overy impressed with the accuracy but I only have tried it at one seating depth.

Corey

 

[Guest]

Corey,
Thanks for risking life and limb. Some of my loads were somewhat similar. Good to compare. I'm still on track. Appreciate your help.

Don

 

[JohnB]

Don

I had a bad experience with the 168 Berger VLD. I shot a deer last season with one from a .308. The load chronographed about 2730 fps and the deer was about 230 yards away. The berger struck the deer with a loud whack, and the deer went down immediately. I thought it was all over and sat my rifle down. A few seconds later the deer rolled up on its belly and ran off. I found the jacket off the bullet laying near where the deer had been. It was split open down the side and opened up flat. Never found the deer.

After this, I read on Berger's website about how competition shooters have occasionally had shots that missed the target, and they had determined that the bullets were heating up to the point that the lead cores would melt and the rotational forces would cause the bullets to come apart. I realize that 1 cold bore shot from a hunting rifle is a much different circumstance, but I think this does speak to how fragile these bullets are.

I switched rifles and bullets after this. I ended up shooting a decent 8 point with a 168 Ballistic Tip from a 30-06.

JohnB

 

[DrMike]

JohnB,

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for sharing your experience. That would certainly shake your confidence in the bullet.

 

[338winmag]

I am a little confused on people's hunting experience with the Berger bullets. Some state no exit hole. Some do?

Per Berger's description:
"The VLD design incorporates a sharp nose that allows the bullet to penetrate 2” to 3” before it starts to expand. After the bullet starts to expand it will shed 40% to 85% of its weight as shrapnel into the surrounding tissue (internal organ). The combination between the shrapnel and the hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that will be 13” to 15” long. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that don’t go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Our bullets don't poke through like an arrow (high weight retention, deep penetration bullets) but instead dump their energy where it is most effective, inside the animal. Using the Berger VLD will result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot."

My understanding was the bullet penetrated about 3 inches and then fragmented (not expanded). This fragmentation is why there was no exit hole. If there is an exit hole, I ask from what?

Thanks
Steve

 

[rick smith]

Fragmentation is not vaporization. I have had a number of exit holes with the Bergers. I would think it is caused by what remains of the jacket and core. I have killed enough whitetails and hogs with them to know that they work. I am shooting them in several 30/06s, a 300WinMag and two 300RUMs. They have been deadly effective. If someone doesn't like the way they work, use another bullet. I don't think it is necessary to use partitions or Barnes bullets for deer/hogs. They don't require the penetration afforded by those two. I have taken whitetails, hogs, mulies and elk with the Partition and know they are great bullets just not necessary for whitetails/hogs. Choose the bullet you are comfortable using but most importantly place the shot in the vitals.Rick.

 

[Big Squeeze]

Don

I had a bad experience with the 168 Berger VLD. I shot a deer last season with one from a .308. The load chronographed about 2730 fps and the deer was about 230 yards away. The berger struck the deer with a loud whack, and the deer went down immediately. I thought it was all over and sat my rifle down. A few seconds later the deer rolled up on its belly and ran off. I found the jacket off the bullet laying near where the deer had been. It was split open down the side and opened up flat. Never found the deer.

After this, I read on Berger's website about how competition shooters have occasionally had shots that missed the target, and they had determined that the bullets were heating up to the point that the lead cores would melt and the rotational forces would cause the bullets to come apart. I realize that 1 cold bore shot from a hunting rifle is a much different circumstance, but I think this does speak to how fragile these bullets are.

I switched rifles and bullets after this. I ended up shooting a decent 8 point with a 168 Ballistic Tip from a 30-06.

JohnB

...................................From what you state, I`d say that you more than likely had just gotten a hold of a defective VLD. Berger was having problems earlier along those lines of which you describe, but have since from what I understand solved that issue. My guess is, is that your incident was an isolated one along with some very bad timing no less.

I started using the 168 hunting VLDs well over 1 1/2 years ago for all my hog hunts. Never have had the problem you describe, and my 30 cal 190 hunting VLD performed as expected on a bull elk from 328 yards. Interestingly, that 190 VLD, not only went thru the thickest part of the elk`s right side shoulder bone, but continued on performing its devasting ritual. Collapsed the bull within 4 yards.

He didn`t move or scamper away after that.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Berger 175 Hunting VLD's...58.5 grains of H4350...seated to 3.36" COAL....chrono'd 2,775 fps.

This is a 30-06 by the way...M70...24" barrel

I may hunt with them this year...I'm in the process of trying to decide that very thing...I'd like to know the minimum velocity required for reliable "fragmentation"...Berger told me over the phone that it was 1,800 fps but I'd like to see the pudding if you know what I mean..

I have no doubt in their killing power...just wanna make sure the 30-06 will push them hard enough to do what they do.

 

[DrMike]

I have assuredly had some fine groups with Bergers in a variety of cartridges. I have not used them on game, however. I'm rather old fashioned, I suppose. Then, again, most of my shots are reasonably close, so I haven't felt the need for extended range shooting.

 

[FOTIS]

It will. We have taken game with the 210 308 cal and the 140 264 mag.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

It will. We have taken game with the 210 308 cal and the 140 264 mag.

:mrgreen:

That bout seals the deal then...could you tell me more about the 308 cal. bullets and how they performed.


I'm gonna stick to the 175's for now...but I'm not opposed to the 185's either.

 

[Guest]

RR,
That is a mighty fine group you have there. The speed of the load looks very good too. You may want to shoot it into some Water Jugs and or wet soaked news paper to check bullet expansion.

Don

 

[Ridgerunner665]

If only I had time...LOL.


Thats why I was hoping to cheat a little...and see what they did for others...there are lots of Berger kills on the various forums but almost all of them are with earsplittenloundenboomer magnums (300 WM, 30-378, 338 Lapua, 338 EDGE, etc.)...there are a few 300WSM's and WM's but not very many and most of them are using 210+ grain bullets. I have been sifting through photos and posts of 30 caliber kills then using JBM to quesstimate the impact velocities and 1,800 fps does seem reasonable...but most of the info I've found comes from bullets that impacted at 2,000 fps or more (according to JBM...)


VERY few documented cases of them being used in standard calibers...I don't have anything against the big guns, I just don't shoot any of them mostly due to the cost And I learned the hard way that I'm a better shot with something that doesn't ring my bell so hard...I do enjoy reading about the big guns, would even enjoy shooting them...but when I need to make it count....less is more.

I went through a "magnum" phase...but it passed...and I decided to stop shooting game past 600 yards, not may places around here to shoot that far anyway...they big guns are nice and I'll never fault anybody for using them, I just don't need them.

 

[Guest]

RR,
I'm with ya on all that. I think what I would do since you have a good group and velocity is looking really fine, load some up and go kill some Deer. I have a Magnum rifle and a 35 Whelen but I still like my 30-06. I've killed a ton of Deer over the years with that gun.

Good luck hunting hope you get a Big Buck with that load.

Don

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Berger has some new bullets on the website...one of them is a 168 grain Classic Hunter...higher BC than any other 168 grain bullet (.496), its one of their new hybrid ogive bullets that isn't supposed to be so sensitive to seating depth...

That bullet at 2,850 fps will outperform the 175...and should maintain 1,800 fps out to 700 yards, the added 100 yards isn't really needed...but doesn't hurt either.

I've decided I'm gonna hunt with the BT's this year...but I'm gonna be doing some testing in the coming year with Bergers...on coyotes, if a coyote will expand them...so will a deer. That will also give Berger time to finish the new 175 grain bullet (I'm guessing they have one in the works).

They have maximized the designs on these bullets in ways that many never dreamed possible...especially the new 168, I expect that bullet to steal some of the thunder from the 155's that have become so popular for the 308...Bryan Litz is a genius! Or at least he put forth the effort...

And Walt Berger himself says that the new 175 grain Tactical bullet is "one heck of a bullet"...he didn't elaborate on that, and the "tactical" bullets are too hard to hunt with...but he thinks it is special in some way...I've heard rumors that it goes transonic with no loss of accuracy though.

 

[FOTIS]

The hybrids are in fact easier to get to shoot accurately!

 

[Guest]

RR,
Sounds interesting.

Fotis,
Nice shooting, as always.

Don

 

[jason miller]

Tag.