22-250 Heavy Bullet advice - POP, Dr. Mike & JD338

[frankm]

I've watched this forum and seen alot of folks get years and years of knowledge and experience shared with them....here's where I need some help:

Just built a short action Rem 700 with a Lilja 27 inch #5 contour fluted barrel with 1-8 twist to shoot heavy 22 caliber bullets. Chambered for standard 22-250..... I've just completed barrel breakin and it's nice and smooth and doesn't foul. Been to the range a couple times and currently trying to get 75 grain AMax (I know it's a Nosler site) bullets to shoot because of reasonable cost and high BC. So far have tried IMR 4350 and IMR 4831 with Lapua cases and Fed 210M primers....have loaded bullets .010 off touching. Velocity with IMR4350 at 35 grains was 3200 fps ish while IMR 4831 at 37 grains gave 3100 fps. IMR 4350 showed some promise with a 3/4" group but the 4831 was 1"+........ Idea's on other powders to try? Would you try some more 4350 and shorten up the COL to .020 , .030, etc..... Just looking for some help here.

Also, the gun is bedded into a HS Precision Pro Series sporter all the way to the end....I'm wondering if a trip back to the Smith and floating the barrel might be something I need to do if I can't get groups tightened up.... Appreciate input on powders, COL and maybe some other bullets I need to try.... Thanks :lol:

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

I would probably start with W760 and benchrest or magum primers:

Cartridge : .22-250 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 75, Hornady A-MAX 22792
Useable Case Capaci: 37.553 grain H2O = 2.438 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.350 inch = 59.69 mm
Barrel Length : 27.0 inch = 685.8 mm
Powder : Winchester 760

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.37% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-13.7 86 31.50 2960 1459 39448 8368 93.4 1.379
-12.3 87 32.00 3007 1506 41341 8510 94.2 1.349
-11.0 89 32.50 3054 1553 43321 8647 94.9 1.321
-09.6 90 33.00 3100 1601 45400 8778 95.5 1.293
-08.2 92 33.50 3147 1649 47584 8903 96.1 1.267
-06.8 93 34.00 3194 1699 49881 9022 96.7 1.240
-05.5 94 34.50 3240 1748 52285 9134 97.2 1.215
-04.1 96 35.00 3287 1799 54794 9240 97.7 1.190
-02.7 97 35.50 3333 1850 57424 9338 98.1 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
-01.4 98 36.00 3379 1901 60186 9429 98.5 1.142 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 36.50 3425 1954 63088 9511 98.9 1.119 ! Near Maximum !
+01.4 101 37.00 3471 2006 66139 9586 99.2 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[JD338]

frankm

Welcome to the forum, glad you decided to join in on the fun.
Sounds like you have a nice rifle. IMR 4350 is geting decent accuracy so I would continue working with it and play with the COL. You could also look at RL 15 and Varget as additional powders to work with.

JD338

 

[DrMike]

frankm,

I'll add my welcome to the forum. It sounds as if you have built a sweet rifle. Is your primary purpose for the rifle to be paper punching? Or are you thinking of using it for hunting? It does seem to be showing promise with both IMR4350 and IMR4831 at this point. Before trying a variety of other powders, I'd likely play with seating depth to see if the accuracy improves.

 

[frankm]

Antelope Sniper, JD338 and Dr. Mike,

All good suggestions and along the lines of what I've been debating. Seen quite a few guys say 760 or H414 has given good results and many others suggest one of the 4350 powders. Dr Mike, will use the rifle for Rockchucks, Coyotes and a little long range steel ringing at the local range. It originally was my father-in-laws rifle and he passed last Sept so I wanted to build something special out of it. Over the last couple decades he and I shot pickup fulls of Rockchucks in SW Idaho Snake River country !

Next step will be to play with COL and thereafter I'll look towards H414 or 760 if I still feel it should do better. Lastly, we'll change the bedding if she doesn't respond to above..

Thanks gentlemen; I appreciate it!

 

[DrMike]

A sound bedding job has never hurt a rifle. Most respond well to free floating if there is a pressure point that is forcing the barrel. Rifles are different; each one likes what it likes. I tend toward the slower powders with the heavy bullets in order to maximise case fill. I also like double base powders with heavy bullets in order to give a bit of a boot (the pressure curve tends to be a bit sharper). Because that is true, W760 (which is H414 packaged under another name) might be the ticket. However, since you appear to have a measure of success with the powders you are now trying, unless you simply want to experiment (there are some of us who really enjoy that sort of stuff), I'd recommend focusing on what you have to ensure that you are getting maximum accuracy out of the powder. While it is true that seating close to the lands can often yield the best accuracy (especially for cup and core bullets), that is not necessarily a hard-and-fast rule. Try a series of loads crafted with the recipe that gave you the best accuracy, seating them at 40/1000, 70/1000 and 100/1000 off the lands. See if one of these stands out as giving better accuracy that what you have at 10/1000 off the lands. Should one of these produce noticeably improved accuracy, play with incremental changes in seating depth around that particular length.

 

[frankm]

Well went back to the range today and took another couple loads of IMR 4350....34.5 grains and 35.2 grains to see what she'd do once again with those 75 AMaxs. Shot at 200 meters with a 10-12 mph cross wind and the 34.5 grain load that had shown promise before (1/2 inch at 100 yds; clocking 3100 fps) grouped right at 3/4 of an inch and the 35.2 grain load was 2+ inches !! This gun seems to like 34.5 grains at 3100 fps.

Loaded up another 10 of those and 10 of IMR 4831 with 37.0 grains as that showed some promise previously but I didn't play with it cause it was only shooting 3100 fps....see a trend here ! :shock:

So we'll see if that Lilja barrel likes that velocity range and if so what do you guys think about stepping up to some 80 grain bullets and see what they'll do at 3000-3100fps?? Maybe that's the sweet spot. (Note: I also tried a 3 shot group with 77 gr Matchkings and 34.5 grains of IMR 4350 today and they were right at 3/4 of an inch also...)

Might try H414 or 760 and see if the double base stuff works any better. I can live with the IMR 4350 though if nothing else pans out... Frank

 

[JD338]

frankm

You are on the right track, way to go buddy.
Keep us posted with your load development and post some pictures of your rifle in action.

JD338

 

[bullet]

Welcome to the forum and W760 and H414 should give good results.

 

[CAhunter]

IMR 4064 or H414 is what I would try if you have any handy. Also maybe the rifle just doesnt like the AMaxs that much. If you are after a heavy bullet maybe try the berger VLD or sierra.

 

[SJB358]

Or the 65gr Sierra GK. I have a box of them on the bench and they look to be good bullets. I am wanting to give them a try in my new 22-250 when I get around to loading for it. Scotty

 

[Powerstroke]

I've been attempting to get some of the same A-max's to shoot out of my .223 without much luck - I them switched and have been hopeful to get the 70gr VLD's to shoot.

My 22-250 however I've used a lot of IMR-4350 and 52 - 55gr bullets. Always had great results with the IMR powders, however tried Viht N-140, and have stayed with it.

Does appear you have something in common going on across the board :grin:
Let us know how the next outing goes and good luck.

 

[frankm]

Well I've been playing with a couple other bullets and nothing stellar yet. Got some 80 grain AMax's and tried them with imr 4831, H414, imr 4350 and even Varget.... a couple good groups, sub-MOA, but not repetitive. It seems to jump back to 1 1/4 + groups on all the powder combinations. Have spareingly tried Sierra 77 MK's and those seem to hang in the 3/4 inch group range so I'm going to try some more of those and see if the consistency is there. The frustrating part of this is that I really built my gun to shoot rockchucks and coyotes with and I'm not comfortable that the Sierra will be a good performer.

Also picked up some 80 grain Berger VLD's to try and have access to a friends 70 grain Berger VLD's and 69 Sierra's MK. Looking for consistency and hopefully it's around the corner !!

Powerstroke, have you had some luck with the 70 VLD's that you'd mentioned? I just wonder if my gun doesn't like the long VLD type of bullet profile. Have even given thoughts to trying 75 Scirroco's , 65 GK, etc. but I guess it's one step at a time.

 

[Powerstroke]

I'd say I've had ok luck with them, nothing stellar by any means. I'm really blaming the plastic fantastic stock I have on this gun I've been shooting them in.

POP had a link, or it's probably on Berger's Site - The VLD's are very finicky about seating depth. The article is very good at explaining where to seat them. There will be 3 or 4 depths they have found to work, but generally only one per gun obviously.

My best groups have come with the 60gr B-tips, but they are hard to come by when you want to walk in and purchase them. It's also a personal "issue" I have, but can't stand the looks of them with the cannalure.

Good luck - and let us know what turns up.