22 Nosler as a trainer rifle video series

[gerry]

I believe in variety, and I like to embrace many different 22 caliber centerfire cartridges: 221 Fireball AI, 223 Rem, 223 AI, 224 Valkyrie (G-2 pistol), 22-250, 22GT, and 22 Creedmoor.
My 223 Rem's, 22 GT's, and 22 Creed's are the hands down favorites though.
I expect the 223AI will be among the favorites soon.
In the past, I have had 221 Fireball, 222 Remington, 22-250AI, and 220 Swift.

Wow that's awesome. I'll keep that in mind your favourites when it comes to buying something.

I wish the 20 cal had more sleek bullets like the 22 cal does. Always thought the 204 Ruger was a great round. Who knows maybe they will start making more fast twist 20's one day and the bullets will come from the big manufacturers.

 

[xphunter]

OKAY-I watched a few minutes of the vid...

My actual loads and one factory load 4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.
15" 223 with 77 grain TMK Reloading (100 yard zero) 15.1 MOA (95.1") drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5 MOA/31.3"
15" 224 Valk 88 ELDM (100 yard zero) 17.0 MOA/106.6 Drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4MOA/25.2"
15" 223 Rem 73 ELDM w/100 yard zero. 16.5 MOA/103.8" @ 600, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.3 MOA/33.2"
18" (could be a 17") 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 15.9 MOA/99.6", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.2 MOA/32.4"

Hornady says the 223 73 grain ELDM MV is 2790 fps (I do not know what the barrel length is here), where as my 18" with the same ammo is 2626 fps
RIFLE LENGTH 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 13.7 MOA/86.1", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4.7 MOA/29.6"
4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.

Let me put a 77 TMK, 80 grain ELDM, 88 ELDM, 85.5 Berger in a 28" 223 Remington rifle and watch the wind and drift data change dramatically.

Actual data
15" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 88 ELD-M) 3.5 MIL/76.4", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1.1 MIL/24.2"
16" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 80 A-Max) 3.0 MIL/65.6" @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1 MIL/21.7"
18" 22GT (reloads/smaller capacity than the 22 Creed) 9.6 MOA/60.6" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.8 MOA/ 17.6"
16" 22GT (Reloads with 88 ELDM) 10.7 MOA/67.4" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 3 MOA/ 18.8"

Here is my point...In the video 23.6" was the least amount of wind drift 80 grain ELD-M with the fast load (28" barrel) 22 Nosler.
I recognize that I am 10" shorter (with my 18") and 13" shorter with my 15" barrels than I am compared to his 28".
Also recognize my elevation difference will change the number too.

F-TR shooters are using longer barrels with the 223 Remington with 85.5 Berger's: Notice different barrel lengths...
24" Hawk Hill barrel 2750 with 85.5's
2775 with 90SMKs and Varget. 27” barrel and the 85.5's are about the same speed.
My rem 700 26” 1:7 barrel is 2754.
24.5gr Varget, CBTO: 1.9710, COAL: 2.535, 2828 FPS, 9.6 SD
23.5gr AR-Comp, COAL: 2.538, CBTO: 1.9720, 2838fps. 8.6 SD
Brux 7 twist 30 inch barrel on the .223 Palma rifle and with the LR chamber the 85.5s are seated out pretty far. So far they seem to like about .050 jump with N140 and H4895. The velocity window seems to be between 2875 and 2900 with that bullet.

88gr elds with 25.8grs of varget at 2896fps from a 28" barrel

All reloads from the F-TR shooters. Plus, most of them have long throats (Single Shots) and are using Lapua brass.
Guess what?
I can make data look really good versus versus poorly, by my choice of bullets, factory versus reloads, barrel lengths, and even how I have my chamber throated.

A 28" 223 Remington with a 90 grain A-Tip (long throated) will run in the 2800 fps range
MV: 2825 fps
11.5 MOA/72.5" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.9 MOA/ 18.2"


Everyone confused now???

 

[xphunter]

Wow that's awesome. I'll keep that in mind your favorites when it comes to buying something.

I wish the 20 cal had more sleek bullets like the 22 cal does. Always thought the 204 Ruger was a great round. Who knows maybe they will start making more fast twist 20's one day and the bullets will come from the big manufacturers.

My 15" 20 BR (20 Caliber), 1-8 Twist McGowen, shoots the 55 Grain Berger @ 3173 fps
To compare it with my 22 calibers and the author of the video 22 Nosler (28" barrel) 23.6" of wind at 600 yards and 62.7" of drop @ 600.

My 15" center-grip XP-100 20 BR
10.3 MOA/ 64.7" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4.1 MOA/ 25.8"

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

OKAY-I watched a few minutes of the vid...

My actual loads and one factory load 4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.
15" 223 with 77 grain TMK Reloading (100 yard zero) 15.1 MOA (95.1") drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5 MOA/31.3"
15" 224 Valk 88 ELDM (100 yard zero) 17.0 MOA/106.6 Drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4MOA/25.2"
15" 223 Rem 73 ELDM w/100 yard zero. 16.5 MOA/103.8" @ 600, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.3 MOA/33.2"
18" (could be a 17") 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 15.9 MOA/99.6", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.2 MOA/32.4"

Hornady says the 223 73 grain ELDM MV is 2790 fps (I do not know what the barrel length is here), where as my 18" with the same ammo is 2626 fps
RIFLE LENGTH 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 13.7 MOA/86.1", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4.7 MOA/29.6"
4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.

Let me put a 77 TMK, 80 grain ELDM, 88 ELDM, 85.5 Berger in a 28" 223 Remington rifle and watch the wind and drift data change dramatically.

Actual data
15" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 88 ELD-M) 3.5 MIL/76.4", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1.1 MIL/24.2"
16" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 80 A-Max) 3.0 MIL/65.6" @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1 MIL/21.7"
18" 22GT (reloads/smaller capacity than the 22 Creed) 9.6 MOA/60.6" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.8 MOA/ 17.6"
16" 22GT (Reloads with 88 ELDM) 10.7 MOA/67.4" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 3 MOA/ 18.8"

Here is my point...In the video 23.6" was the least amount of wind drift 80 grain ELD-M with the fast load (28" barrel) 22 Nosler.
I recognize that I am 10" shorter (with my 18") and 13" shorter with my 15" barrels than I am compared to his 28".
Also recognize my elevation difference will change the number too.

F-TR shooters are using longer barrels with the 223 Remington with 85.5 Berger's: Notice different barrel lengths...
24" Hawk Hill barrel 2750 with 85.5's
2775 with 90SMKs and Varget. 27” barrel and the 85.5's are about the same speed.
My rem 700 26” 1:7 barrel is 2754.
24.5gr Varget, CBTO: 1.9710, COAL: 2.535, 2828 FPS, 9.6 SD
23.5gr AR-Comp, COAL: 2.538, CBTO: 1.9720, 2838fps. 8.6 SD
Brux 7 twist 30 inch barrel on the .223 Palma rifle and with the LR chamber the 85.5s are seated out pretty far. So far they seem to like about .050 jump with N140 and H4895. The velocity window seems to be between 2875 and 2900 with that bullet.

88gr elds with 25.8grs of varget at 2896fps from a 28" barrel

All reloads from the F-TR shooters. Plus, most of them have long throats (Single Shots) and are using Lapua brass.
Guess what?
I can make data look really good versus versus poorly, by my choice of bullets, factory versus reloads, barrel lengths, and even how I have my chamber throated.

A 28" 223 Remington with a 90 grain A-Tip (long throated) will run in the 2800 fps range
MV: 2825 fps
11.5 MOA/72.5" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.9 MOA/ 18.2"


Everyone confused now???

Im definitely not confused hahaha. I for one know the difference between an apples to oranges comparison like that moron is talking about. And I also understand exterior ballistics very very well. It's pretty hard to get anything past me when it comes to ballistics.

Like I said earlier, I get 3050fps with a 75g ELDM, from a 28" barrel and a long throat from a 223 Wylde with Lapua brass. Even at my low elevation of 500ft and 60 degrees, my wind drift is 26" at 600 yards. Which beats a couple of his 22 Nolser loads, and is only 2.5" off his faster handloaded 80g ELDM. I could also then put an 88g ELDM or 90g Atip in my 223 and beat any of his loads/numbers he's putting out for that 22 Nosler. My point is, the 223 is every bit as good as the 22 Nosler at 1K for a trainer rifle, when done the right way. He is not comparing it the right way, which in turn makes it a lot less favorable obviously to try and prove his apples to oranges comparison. He claims the 223 is inferior to the 22 Nosler. Well no shit when you compare the 223 with factory rifles and ammo, to a custom built rifle with handloads. But when built to the same specs, on an apples to apples comparison, it's every bit as good as the 22 Nosler, imagine that!

Then I have my 7-300 Win Mag. It shoots 180g ELDMs at 3100fps also from a 28" barrel. It only drifts 14" which is pretty amazing, and I believe it beats out all his "hot rod" overbore cartridges he had listed at the bottom. The 7-300 win mag isn't a hot rod barrel burner either. It's simply an amazingly efficient 7mm cartridge for hunting and LR shooting. It's almost like cheating shooting in the wind with it...But where I live and shoot in EO, the wind constantly blows 10-20 mph. So I've become pretty decent at shooting in the wind the last 25 years. If you waited for nice non windy days, you wouldn't have very many days to shoot haha.

Of course you can skew the ballistics from factory barreled rifles and ammo to make it look bad, but isn't he using reloads, a custom built, fast twist long barreled rifle also to get his numbers? I think so. And most people who are into this type thing, don't run factory ammo either. So that's a moot point not even worth mentioning. Kinda moronic really.

That guy just wreaks of arrogance and I don't like him, or his biased BS videos he puts out. It's not geared towards people who know better, rather than the average Joe he can impress. Well I'm not impressed, nor the average Joe. I know better and will call BS when I see it is all.

 

[nhenry]

I’m actually loving the guy’s no-BS approach to the 7mm thing. Unlike a couple of the guys above, I agree with what he has to say. The 22 Nosler series has been pretty good too.

 

[nhenry]

Plus, it's also hilarious to me how he clowned on my 300 win mag Nosler brass for my 7-300 and said it was shit, yet he built a rifle around a cartridge that uses only you guessed it, Nosler brass. What an idiot haha

Not all Nosler brass is built to the same quality. 25-06 Rem nosler brass is hot garbage. 280 AI nosler brass is OK. 7mm-08 Nosler brass is great. It’s all about the cartridge. They developed the 22 Nosler so I would assume it’s better brass.

You can clown on him all you want but he has good info. Watch him or don’t. It’s good to see other peoples’ points of views. You saying he’s a clown for the way he thinks and portrays himself on video is the exact same as him “imposing his own ethics and skills unto others.”

Also, he said in the first 7mm video that he was going to delete troll comments as to not muddy up the information comments give down below. Shouldn’t be a surprise to you that he deleted yours.

Not trying to make enemies, but everyone thinks differently. Keyboard commandoing only gets you so far.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

He's still a douche, and nothing you say or quote from me is going to change my mind.

Great thing about America is everyone can have their own opinions and thats fine. But when you want to make apples and oranges comparisons, and contradict statements to where its only good if you use it, IE 22 Nosler brass, that doesn't equate to facts or good info. Facts trump opinions and garbage info everytime.

My comments are far from trolling. They are straight facts. And as far as keyboard commanding, where do you base that assumption from? Some people don't like the truth, that's not my problem. Take it as you wish.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't single me out and quote me, to try and make it look like I don't know what I'm talking about, all the while defending that idiot. Not everyone is so gullible and knows better. Thanks.

 

[nhenry]

He's still a douche, and nothing you say or quote from me is going to change my mind.

Great thing about America is everyone can have their own opinions and thats fine. But when you want to make apples and oranges comparisons, and contradict statements to where its only good if you use it, IE 22 Nosler brass, that doesn't equate to facts or good info. Facts trump opinions and garbage info everytime.

My comments are far from trolling. They are straight facts. And as far as keyboard commanding, where do you base that assumption from? Some people don't like the truth, that's not my problem. Take it as you wish.

And I'd appreciate it if you didn't single me out and quote me, to try and make it look like I don't know what I'm talking about, all the while defending that idiot. Not everyone is so gullible and knows better. Thanks.

Thanks. Have a good day.

 

[gerry]

OKAY-I watched a few minutes of the vid...

My actual loads and one factory load 4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.
15" 223 with 77 grain TMK Reloading (100 yard zero) 15.1 MOA (95.1") drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5 MOA/31.3"
15" 224 Valk 88 ELDM (100 yard zero) 17.0 MOA/106.6 Drop @ 600 yards, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4MOA/25.2"
15" 223 Rem 73 ELDM w/100 yard zero. 16.5 MOA/103.8" @ 600, 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.3 MOA/33.2"
18" (could be a 17") 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 15.9 MOA/99.6", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 5.2 MOA/32.4"

Hornady says the 223 73 grain ELDM MV is 2790 fps (I do not know what the barrel length is here), where as my 18" with the same ammo is 2626 fps
RIFLE LENGTH 223 Rem 100 yd Zero, 13.7 MOA/86.1", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 4.7 MOA/29.6"
4565 Elevation at 70 degrees temp.

Let me put a 77 TMK, 80 grain ELDM, 88 ELDM, 85.5 Berger in a 28" 223 Remington rifle and watch the wind and drift data change dramatically.

Actual data
15" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 88 ELD-M) 3.5 MIL/76.4", @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1.1 MIL/24.2"
16" 22 Creed (Unknown Munitions 80 A-Max) 3.0 MIL/65.6" @ 600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 1 MIL/21.7"
18" 22GT (reloads/smaller capacity than the 22 Creed) 9.6 MOA/60.6" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.8 MOA/ 17.6"
16" 22GT (Reloads with 88 ELDM) 10.7 MOA/67.4" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 3 MOA/ 18.8"

Here is my point...In the video 23.6" was the least amount of wind drift 80 grain ELD-M with the fast load (28" barrel) 22 Nosler.
I recognize that I am 10" shorter (with my 18") and 13" shorter with my 15" barrels than I am compared to his 28".
Also recognize my elevation difference will change the number too.

F-TR shooters are using longer barrels with the 223 Remington with 85.5 Berger's: Notice different barrel lengths...
24" Hawk Hill barrel 2750 with 85.5's
2775 with 90SMKs and Varget. 27” barrel and the 85.5's are about the same speed.
My rem 700 26” 1:7 barrel is 2754.
24.5gr Varget, CBTO: 1.9710, COAL: 2.535, 2828 FPS, 9.6 SD
23.5gr AR-Comp, COAL: 2.538, CBTO: 1.9720, 2838fps. 8.6 SD
Brux 7 twist 30 inch barrel on the .223 Palma rifle and with the LR chamber the 85.5s are seated out pretty far. So far they seem to like about .050 jump with N140 and H4895. The velocity window seems to be between 2875 and 2900 with that bullet.

88gr elds with 25.8grs of varget at 2896fps from a 28" barrel

All reloads from the F-TR shooters. Plus, most of them have long throats (Single Shots) and are using Lapua brass.
Guess what?
I can make data look really good versus versus poorly, by my choice of bullets, factory versus reloads, barrel lengths, and even how I have my chamber throated.

A 28" 223 Remington with a 90 grain A-Tip (long throated) will run in the 2800 fps range
MV: 2825 fps
11.5 MOA/72.5" @600 yards. 10 MPH FV wind @ 600: 2.9 MOA/ 18.2"


Everyone confused now???

Lots to chew on here thank you, going to study what you posted more.

Having watched the whole series the big reason they chose the 22 Nosler was because you can easily find good factory ammo using the 85 gr Nosler RDF which gave them the performance they were looking for without handloading. They then developed some loads for those who wish to have a starting point that likely will shoot well in their guns.

Anyway Since I'm a handloader it opens up lots of different options. Too bad Berger stopped making the Berger 55 gr 204 bullet. I think the 17 Fireball would be awesome to shoot and you would get a lot of loads from a pound of powder. Sure is nice to have lots of different options out there.

 

[gerry]

I’m actually loving the guy’s no-BS approach to the 7mm thing. Unlike a couple of the guys above, I agree with what he has to say. The 22 Nosler series has been pretty good too.

I'm looking forward to the 7mm series too. Going to see what the real world performance of them will be not the inflated numbers (cough Hornady 7 PRC) that are being reported. The 28 Nosler is quite an amazing round and tough to beat for performance. Looking forward to seeing what the 280 AI comes up with. They aren't testing it but I really like what the 284 Win offers since I'm a Tikka fan and that's a good match for that action.

 

[nhenry]

I'm looking forward to the 7mm series too. Going to see what the real world performance of them will be not the inflated numbers (cough Hornady 7 PRC) that are being reported. The 28 Nosler is quite an amazing round and tough to beat for performance. Looking forward to seeing what the 280 AI comes up with. They aren't testing it but I really like what the 284 Win offers since I'm a Tikka fan and that's a good match for that action.

My next rifle will be a 7 SAUM because I have a .284 carbon barrel sitting around. I’ll be paying close attention to the numbers he gets, although I think I’ll run with the SAAMI spec chamber to be different than mainstream.

 

[gerry]

My next rifle will be a 7 SAUM because I have a .284 carbon barrel sitting around. I’ll be paying close attention to the numbers he gets, although I think I’ll run with the SAAMI spec chamber to be different than mainstream.

That's another round that deserved much better that it got, the perfect 7mm short magnum in my opinion. Such a well balanced round.

 

[xphunter]

Lots to chew on here thank you, going to study what you posted more.

Having watched the whole series the big reason they chose the 22 Nosler was because you can easily find good factory ammo using the 85 gr Nosler RDF which gave them the performance they were looking for without handloading. They then developed some loads for those who wish to have a starting point that likely will shoot well in their guns.

Anyway Since I'm a handloader it opens up lots of different options. Too bad Berger stopped making the Berger 55 gr 204 bullet. I think the 17 Fireball would be awesome to shoot and you would get a lot of loads from a pound of powder. Sure is nice to have lots of different options out there.

Gerry,
You are welcome.
I watched a little, then fast forwarded to see his data/numbers.
I did NOT take the time to find his elevation.
My numbers would have been more "apples to apples" if I had done so.
I like Wizmo-Gizmo gun stuff...New cartridges, and such gun related stuff.
So, I am not opposed to new cartridges like the 22 Nos.
I originally checked out the 22 Nos, since it is chambered in their Nosler center-grip specialty pistols. It didn't appeal to me for whatever reason, and I moved on. I hadn't really thought of it again, until your thread.

If we are comparing factory ammo against factory ammo (2 different cartridges) with the same bullet, and with the same length barrels, then that would be a fair comparison.

I am glad you reload. It gives you a lot of flexibility

Do I think the author spun things to his advantage for what he was trying to prove? Most definitely!
I don't think that did him any favors for people like me, since I see "The Spin" and it irks me.
I don't care for people who pad the info into their favor.
I would rather have a fair as possible comparison and leave the results up to the data.

You will have about 25-35 feet per second per inch of barrel on average.
So, if a guy has a barrel 2" longer than mine, using the same load, it should be about 50-70 fps faster.

The 7mmx300 Win mag cartridge was brought up in this thread. Great cartridge!
It is basically a twin to the 7mm Dakota ballistically.
I have had three different 7mm Dakota XP-100 pistols. Each had 18" barrels.
The lightest bullet I have ever shot was a 175 and the heaviest was the old ULD (Extra Low Drag) 200 grain Wildcat bullet that a had a rebated boat tail. They were made for LR hunting. If I remember right, they were made in Canada.
I started with H-1000 and primarily with Retumbo.
The one day I tried Reloder 33 and I got 100 fps more+ MV with just a change of powder.

Knowing what powder(s) will work best for the barrel lengths and bullet weights you are using allows one to take advantage of better performance.

In the 6.5-284, the standby powder back in the day was H-4831 with 140 class bullets.
In 15-17 inch barrels it sucked.
Tried H-4350, and it brought the cartridge to life (Great accuracy and speed) for barrel of 15-18".
I had all kinds of people coming down on me for using too fast of a powder for that cartridge/bullet combination.
It's funny how things change...
In the early days of Class the 284 Winchester load typically used H-4831 with 180's
Now in F-Open H-4350 is used for the 284 Winchester with 180 Berger Hybrids!
It was also a common powder for the 7mm SAUM with 180's

This has been a fun discussion!
I am a ballistic Nerd!

 

[xphunter]

That's another round that deserved much better that it got, the perfect 7mm short magnum in my opinion. Such a well balanced round.

I love the 7mm SAUM too!
Just as a heads up, the 7mm-6.5PRC is a basically a twin to the SAUM ballistically.
If, I didn't already have 7mm SAUM brass and custom dies, I would go with the 7mm PRC-W.
I was going to build a 7mm PRC in a center-grip XP, but I don't need that much horsepower, so it is going to be a 7mm SAUM!

 

[gerry]

Gerry,
You are welcome.
I watched a little, then fast forwarded to see his data/numbers.
I did NOT take the time to find his elevation.
My numbers would have been more "apples to apples" if I had done so.
I like Wizmo-Gizmo gun stuff...New cartridges, and such gun related stuff.
So, I am not opposed to new cartridges like the 22 Nos.
I originally checked out the 22 Nos, since it is chambered in their Nosler center-grip specialty pistols. It didn't appeal to me for whatever reason, and I moved on. I hadn't really thought of it again, until your thread.

If we are comparing factory ammo against factory ammo (2 different cartridges) with the same bullet, and with the same length barrels, then that would be a fair comparison.

I am glad you reload. It gives you a lot of flexibility

Do I think the author spun things to his advantage for what he was trying to prove? Most definitely!
I don't think that did him any favors for people like me, since I see "The Spin" and it irks me.
I don't care for people who pad the info into their favor.
I would rather have a fair as possible comparison and leave the results up to the data.

You will have about 25-35 feet per second per inch of barrel on average.
So, if a guy has a barrel 2" longer than mine, using the same load, it should be about 50-70 fps faster.

The 7mmx300 Win mag cartridge was brought up in this thread. Great cartridge!
It is basically a twin to the 7mm Dakota ballistically.
I have had three different 7mm Dakota XP-100 pistols. Each had 18" barrels.
The lightest bullet I have ever shot was a 175 and the heaviest was the old ULD (Extra Low Drag) 200 grain Wildcat bullet that a had a rebated boat tail. They were made for LR hunting. If I remember right, they were made in Canada.
I started with H-1000 and primarily with Retumbo.
The one day I tried Reloder 33 and I got 100 fps more+ MV with just a change of powder.

Knowing what powder(s) will work best for the barrel lengths and bullet weights you are using allows one to take advantage of better performance.

In the 6.5-284, the standby powder back in the day was H-4831 with 140 class bullets.
In 15-17 inch barrels it sucked.
Tried H-4350, and it brought the cartridge to life (Great accuracy and speed) for barrel of 15-18".
I had all kinds of people coming down on me for using too fast of a powder for that cartridge/bullet combination.
It's funny how things change...
In the early days of Class the 284 Winchester load typically used H-4831 with 180's
Now in F-Open H-4350 is used for the 284 Winchester with 180 Berger Hybrids!
It was also a common powder for the 7mm SAUM with 180's

This has been a fun discussion!
I am a ballistic Nerd!

Love the discussion too!

So what I'm getting from the first part of your post is you "need" a 22 Nosler now Good thoughts on burn rates for different barrel lengths and the difference it makes. Hornady is being raked over the coals right now with their 175 gr ELD-X 7 PRC load that was supposed to get 3000 fps but is actually getting 2850 fps. Turns out they used RL 26 originally but couldn't get it anymore and are using H 1000 and never told the consumer. Somewhere along the way they have used Staball HD too in that load.

Fair comments on him spinning the data somewhat. That said it's all the other information that's interesting. I differ on his thoughts about bullets too but that's fine, we all have our preferences.

 

[gerry]

I love the 7mm SAUM too!
Just as a heads up, the 7mm-6.5PRC is a basically a twin to the SAUM ballistically.
If, I didn't already have 7mm SAUM brass and custom dies, I would go with the 7mm PRC-W.
I was going to build a 7mm PRC in a center-grip XP, but I don't need that much horsepower, so it is going to be a 7mm SAUM!

Heard good thing about the 7 PRC-W as an easy to load and shoot cartridge. Some guys wanted that version from the factory but it never happened. The 7 SAUM is sweet, very similar to the 6.8 Western I like so much. It ranks right there with the 284 Win in 7mm rounds I like.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Since we are on the subject of 7mms right now, I also want to point out another false claim of his.

The 280 AI vs the 7 Rem Mag. Everyone knows these 2 can be loaded pretty close to one another, yet he says "that's bullshit". Now we all know the 7 Rem Mag will outdo the 280 AI, but not to the absurd numbers he is claiming in his video, which he says is at least 250fps, maybe even 300fps. That's literally unheard of. In no world is the 7 RM outdoing the 280 AI by 250-300fps in equal barrel lengths, and appropriate pressures with only 10g powder capacity difference. In the real world, the difference is about 150fps from the 280 AI and the 7 Rem Mag. A very far cry off his 250-300fps claims. The guy just likes to tweak certain things here and there, and for what reason I don't know.

Like I said earlier, he's geared towards putting out content for the average guy, not the guys who actually know better, and will call him out on it. It's funny to me he can sit there and bash and make fun of people, dish it all out and make snarky comments, but the second someone comes at him with facts discrediting his absurd claims, he can't take it, and will delete "troll" comments. What a joke. And thats exactly why I can't stand him or his videos.

Add to the fact in his own words and opinion that the CX bullet is the best hunting bullet out there, just further proves my point. That's his own opinion, and definitely not a fact. It's a newish bullet and a copper bullet at that. Monos aren't neccesary bullets to kill any NA game period. They are better served for African dangerous game. I can name a ton of lead jacketed bullets that will kill just as good, or better than that new CX bullet for deer and elk. I've shot more elk and seen more elk killed than he'll ever dream of, and none have been with a copper bullet. So to sit there and say the CX is superior and every other bullet is crap is just down right hilarious. He also says target bullets are shit for killing animals. Haha what a joke, again he has absolutely no clue what hes talking about. There are numerous target bullets that have superior track records for killing deer and elk, at both close and far. Target bullets are all I've used the better part of my life, and I fill my tags every year with them, as do many others. I won't say target bullets are the best, because they're not. But they are the best for the type of hunting I do. They are a very specific type of bullet for purposes and guys that know their limits. And I'm also smart enough to know there is no perfect bullet, only bullets that work inside their given parameters. Some work better than others under those given circumstances. End of story.

 

[xphunter]

Love the discussion too!

So what I'm getting from the first part of your post is you "need" a 22 Nosler now Good thoughts on burn rates for different barrel lengths and the difference it makes. Hornady is being raked over the coals right now with their 175 gr ELD-X 7 PRC load that was supposed to get 3000 fps but is actually getting 2850 fps. Turns out they used RL 26 originally but couldn't get it anymore and are using H 1000 and never told the consumer. Somewhere along the way they have used Staball HD too in that load.

Fair comments on him spinning the data somewhat. That said it's all the other information that's interesting. I differ on his thoughts about bullets too but that's fine, we all have our preferences.

I do not want a 22 Nos, but good try
I will be getting a 223AI XP-100 in about a month. I had picked up a used 17 Remington XP-100, that was supposed to be a shooter, and it was a dog.
So, to "tomato stake" land that 17 Rem barrel goes, and will get replaced with a Brux 7T .224 barrel that will be chambered in 223AI.
Barrel will be under 16", and will have a Holland Radial Baffle Brake.
I already had a 223AI Wilson inline seating die (I have no idea how I came into possession of it-I didn't buy it).
I have wanted a 223AI for a long time, just like a I have wanted a S&W 41 Magnum revolver for a long time.

I'm curious how close the 223AI will be to the 22 Nosler in terms of capacity?

I use Reloder 26 for both of my 22 GT specialty pistols.

 

[xphunter]

Im definitely not confused hahaha. I for one know the difference between an apples to oranges comparison like that moron is talking about.

Then I have my 7-300 Win Mag. It shoots 180g ELDMs at 3100fps also from a 28" barrel. It only drifts 14" which is pretty amazing, and I believe it beats out all his "hot rod" overbore cartridges he had listed at the bottom. The 7-300 win mag isn't a hot rod barrel burner either. It's simply an amazingly efficient 7mm cartridge for hunting and LR shooting. It's almost like cheating shooting in the wind with it...But where I live and shoot in EO, the wind constantly blows 10-20 mph. So I've become pretty decent at shooting in the wind the last 25 years. If you waited for nice non windy days, you wouldn't have very many days to shoot haha.

I knew my numbers would make sense to a lot of folks here.
My 18" center-grip XP-100 in 7mm Dakota (Basically a twin to the 7mm-300WM) runs 175 grain ELD-X's at 2900 FPS.
You are running 200 fps faster than me with a 5 grain heavier bullet.
So you are basically running 250 fps faster than me if I upped to a 180 grain (I guesstimate about 100 fps per 10 grains of bullet weight).
You have 10" more barrel length, which turns into around 25 fps per inch, IF, I did my math right.
My 7mm Dakota is my LR specialty pistol striker.
I have let friends use it and they have hit steel beyond 2K with it. I have killed 4 elk with it and one mule deer buck.

This is from when I did my first round of drop confirmations with it at 1000 yards. Even though I say, " "I am going to come down" after the first shot, I changed my mind and did a second confirming shot. Then, I came down and did two more shots.
I love the 7mm for LR hunting and shooting!

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I knew my numbers would make sense to a lot of folks here.
My 18" center-grip XP-100 in 7mm Dakota (Basically a twin to the 7mm-300WM) runs 175 grain ELD-X's at 2900 FPS.
You are running 200 fps faster than me with a 5 grain heavier bullet.
So you are basically running 250 fps faster than me if I upped to a 180 grain (I guesstimate about 100 fps per 10 grains of bullet weight).
You have 10" more barrel length, which turns into around 25 fps per inch, IF, I did my math right.
My 7mm Dakota is my LR specialty pistol striker.
I have let friends use it and they have hit steel beyond 2K with it. I have killed 4 elk with it and one mule deer buck.

This is from when I did my first round of drop confirmations with it at 1000 yards. Even though I say, " "I am going to come down" after the first shot, I changed my mind and did a second confirming shot. Then, I came down and did two more shots.
I love the 7mm for LR hunting and shooting!

Good stuff Ernie! I actually was debating building a 7 Dakota when I had the 7-300 Win Mag built, but brass and dies were the limiting factor for me. I might revisit the idea when my 7-300 Win Mag shoots out. I've always liked that cartridge and it's one of the very few 7 mags I haven't either owned, or worked with.

I was going to post up a video of my 7-300 in action at 1K in 20-25mph winds, but apparently a 1 minute video clip is to large a file to put up. But I have no problem taking it out to 1K anyday of the week and putting 3 shots within 6" on the plate laying prone with a bipod and rear bag. It's just to easy really with that 7mm and those 180g ELDMs at 3100. It's taken 5 elk and 3 deer so far from 300-800 yards, and every single one has been a 1 shot drop DRT before it even hit the ground.