Need some help on getting a load for a 120 gr Partition. I have tried the loads out of Nosler reloading #5 with IMR7828 & AA3100 with not very good results. I have some H1000, H4350, H4831 on hand and looking for a load with on of these powders. I currently have 2 loads with 100 gr bullets are are shooting 5 shot groups under .75 @ 100 yards. So I know the gun and shoot it if I can make it?
257 WBY load
- Thread starter mbrands75
- Start date
Is your Weatherby an old rifle? I have 2 1960's rifles and I get wonderful groups with 100 grainers with IMR 4831. The riflings are a little slower so it makes it hard to stabalize the heavier barrels. IMR4831 max load out of the Nossler book gives me a little over an inch in one rifle and the other hovers just around 2. I have tried many other powders and this is as good as I ahve gotten. 7828 was one of the worst I was realy hoping it would have worked due to the lower pressure and more velocity. When I have time I was going to try the 115 accubonds to see if this would work better. Good luck oh I have a newer 257WM and it puts 120NP allmost ontop of em with 4831
armchairhunter
Beginner
- Mar 21, 2007
- 9
- 0
I recently did a search here and found some posts regarding RETUMBO so I gave that a try with both 115 and 120gr Partitions.
My rifle is a 26" barreled LazerMark.
The 120gr load my rifle liked was 71.80grains of Retumbo using Federal 215 primers and Weatherby Brass.
Now...that load gave a 5-shot <1" group at 100 yards, but I didn't like the velocity. The 120's posted 3345fps, 10 feet from muzzle and the 115's showed 3392.
The load I settled on and used was the 100grainers with RL25 with a velocity of 3565 and recently used it to kill 3 whitetails; two at approx 325 yards and one at 55 yards.
After lots of reading and chatting with others the 100grain Partitions will do everything I need from Whitetails to Zebra. I didn't want to "rob" the rifle its potential by trying to make up for a small bore with heavy pills.
I've never had any luck with H1000 nor IMR7828 in my 7mm Dakota or 300Win Mag. Both rifles loved RETUMBO, but the velocity posted across my chronograph was a good 80fps less than everything published. But they shoot exceedingly well.
My rifle is a 26" barreled LazerMark.
The 120gr load my rifle liked was 71.80grains of Retumbo using Federal 215 primers and Weatherby Brass.
Now...that load gave a 5-shot <1" group at 100 yards, but I didn't like the velocity. The 120's posted 3345fps, 10 feet from muzzle and the 115's showed 3392.
The load I settled on and used was the 100grainers with RL25 with a velocity of 3565 and recently used it to kill 3 whitetails; two at approx 325 yards and one at 55 yards.
After lots of reading and chatting with others the 100grain Partitions will do everything I need from Whitetails to Zebra. I didn't want to "rob" the rifle its potential by trying to make up for a small bore with heavy pills.
I've never had any luck with H1000 nor IMR7828 in my 7mm Dakota or 300Win Mag. Both rifles loved RETUMBO, but the velocity posted across my chronograph was a good 80fps less than everything published. But they shoot exceedingly well.
- Thread starter
- #4
I bought the gun new last year, it is a Vanguard. Here are the results I have so far with 120 gr part. H1000, 69gr, COL 3.2, 3086fps with a 2.2" group. IMR7828 67gr, COL 3.2, 3176fps, 1.7" group. Maybe I am just trying to hard to get a tack driving group. My load for 100gr Speer SPBT loaded with H1000, 77.5gr, COL 3.2", 3589fps, 0.7" group. I am trying to make a 120gr partiton load because I have been told 100gr speer's will explode on game when moving at this kind of velocities. The guy just told me the Partition will hold together under them velocities. I did play around with some accubonds and came up with H4350, 57.5 gr, COL3.3 shot .8" group, not sure of the velocity, prior to haveing crono.
- Thread starter
- #5
armchairhunter
Beginner
- Mar 21, 2007
- 9
- 0
mb75,
I have no doubt the 100gr Partition or AB will have enough downrange energy at 400 yards for a frail Pronghorn.
Here's the result of two 100grainers at 325 yards.
Both were perfect shoulder shots and exited with a 5/8"-3/4" hole.
I have no doubt the 100gr Partition or AB will have enough downrange energy at 400 yards for a frail Pronghorn.
Here's the result of two 100grainers at 325 yards.
Both were perfect shoulder shots and exited with a 5/8"-3/4" hole.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,287
- 3,005
Yes! They work just fine!
mbrands75,
What is the length of your barrel?
Please note that my weapon is not a Weatherby. Mine is a heavy barrel Ruger 77VT with a 26" barrel. It started life as a .25-06 unfired and re-chambered to .257 Weatherby Magnum with freebore, approx. 3/8". I have shot some incredible groups with the 110 AccuBond and IMR7828SSC.
Are you experiencing pressure signs with the 67.0 load? Did you try a heavier load? Please use appropriate caution and common sense if you try a heavier load.
My rifle loves 71.0 grains IMR7828SSC, 110 grain Nosler AccuBond and CCI 250 magnum rifle primers. Best three shot group at 100 yard was .26" with average velocity of 3450 FPS. Difference in speed was only 12 FPS high to low.
Sighted in at 2.25" high at 100 yards is dead-on at 300 yards, -3.2" at 350 yards. -7.5" at 400 yards. Two coyotes downed at over 350 yards. Went down as if struck by lightning. AccuBond exit, nice neat 2" hole. The 100 Ballistic Tip with velocity of 3650 FPS will cut a coyote in half.
My 100 grain Ballistic Tip load is 76.5 grains of RETUMBO. Consistent under one inch. The B/T will destroy meat.
One other point. During early deveolpment I experimented seating the bullets out to 3.25", the maximum for the magazine. This only made groups worse. I read an article by Layne Simpson who expressed the same observation. I went back to 3.17" OAL, as he suggested, and that was when I achieved the accuracy and velocity desired.
Good luck with your project. Once you find the load it is like shooting a deathray. Flat, fast, accurate, and instant death.
Jerry
Bend, Oregon
What is the length of your barrel?
Please note that my weapon is not a Weatherby. Mine is a heavy barrel Ruger 77VT with a 26" barrel. It started life as a .25-06 unfired and re-chambered to .257 Weatherby Magnum with freebore, approx. 3/8". I have shot some incredible groups with the 110 AccuBond and IMR7828SSC.
Are you experiencing pressure signs with the 67.0 load? Did you try a heavier load? Please use appropriate caution and common sense if you try a heavier load.
My rifle loves 71.0 grains IMR7828SSC, 110 grain Nosler AccuBond and CCI 250 magnum rifle primers. Best three shot group at 100 yard was .26" with average velocity of 3450 FPS. Difference in speed was only 12 FPS high to low.
Sighted in at 2.25" high at 100 yards is dead-on at 300 yards, -3.2" at 350 yards. -7.5" at 400 yards. Two coyotes downed at over 350 yards. Went down as if struck by lightning. AccuBond exit, nice neat 2" hole. The 100 Ballistic Tip with velocity of 3650 FPS will cut a coyote in half.
My 100 grain Ballistic Tip load is 76.5 grains of RETUMBO. Consistent under one inch. The B/T will destroy meat.
One other point. During early deveolpment I experimented seating the bullets out to 3.25", the maximum for the magazine. This only made groups worse. I read an article by Layne Simpson who expressed the same observation. I went back to 3.17" OAL, as he suggested, and that was when I achieved the accuracy and velocity desired.
Good luck with your project. Once you find the load it is like shooting a deathray. Flat, fast, accurate, and instant death.
Jerry
Bend, Oregon
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
Me thinking you need to do a little bit more load development. Start with a certain powder and bullet and load 3 shells each at say 60, 61, 62 grains. Say a total of 9 shots, or 3 loads. If none of them shoot worth a dang, try a different powder. If one of the loads shows promise, work around that load +/- .5g.
You cant just pick a load from someone else or a book and expect it to shoot like a house a fire. You have to do load development for YOUR rifle.
100g bullets is plenty power for antelope and deer out of the 257 WBY. But for longer shots, heavier bullets tend to buck the wind better and hit harder. Thats why we use them.
I dont think your rifle is the problem, you just haven't worked with enough combos to find what it likes.
You cant just pick a load from someone else or a book and expect it to shoot like a house a fire. You have to do load development for YOUR rifle.
100g bullets is plenty power for antelope and deer out of the 257 WBY. But for longer shots, heavier bullets tend to buck the wind better and hit harder. Thats why we use them.
I dont think your rifle is the problem, you just haven't worked with enough combos to find what it likes.
armchairhunter
Beginner
- Mar 21, 2007
- 9
- 0
mb75,
This is a pic of the same two deer that are shown above.
I have never been so impressed by both the performance of the 257WM and the 100 Partition. The #1 deer fell where she stood, #2 flopped around a few seconds and expired.
This is a pic of the same two deer that are shown above.
I have never been so impressed by both the performance of the 257WM and the 100 Partition. The #1 deer fell where she stood, #2 flopped around a few seconds and expired.
- Thread starter
- #11
My gun has a 24" barrel with a 1-10 twist rate. Here is the process I use for making a load. I look in the loading manual for the bullet I want to load. I look at what powder I have or can get, and I will load up 5 bullets starting at the min and going up by .5gr until I reach max or if shows over-pressure signs. At the range I will shoot a 5 shot group with-out letting the barrel heat up (yes it takes forever at the range). I will then measure the distance between the 2 farthest shots. I have been very sucessful with using this method on other calibers, just not this one. I have tried 20 differnt loads so far like I said without good results. I was just looking for a starting point using H1000, because according to Hodgdon it preforms very well in the .257 WBY, but I can not find a load using 120 partitions and H1000. I have been reloading for 2 years and not sure how to have a starting point for components not listed in reloading manuals. For a 120 gr. Swift SP the starting load is 69gr. Should I just start there? I have just noticed when looking at Nosler's, Hornady's, and Speer's manuals the loads using the same powder and same weight bullets the powder loads are different. Thanks for all the help, I am learning alot of new information.
Greg Nolan
Handloader
- Nov 25, 2004
- 2,143
- 18
I just finished working up 110 gr. AccuBond load for my 257WBY Vanguard with the 1in10 24" stainless barrel. It has a lot of room for longer OAL but when I got done with all the lengths 3.25 which is factory spec. worked the best in my rifle. I was shooting off the tailgate of my truck so I might can do better but it still put 3 rounds in exactly .5 in at 100 yds. I was surprised how much difference a small OAL length change .05-.08 made. Anyway I'm a little above Max. but the velocity was about right and I experienced no pressure signs. IMR 7828 72.5 gr. CCI 250 primers. 3391 fps average.
Of course this is in my rifle with my chamber dimensions with brand new Weatherby brass. I worked up to it slowly. All the loads I saw called for Federal 215 primers which I believe are a bit hotter. I'm thinking antelope.
Good luck on your loads.
Good Hunting
Elkhunt
Of course this is in my rifle with my chamber dimensions with brand new Weatherby brass. I worked up to it slowly. All the loads I saw called for Federal 215 primers which I believe are a bit hotter. I'm thinking antelope.
Good luck on your loads.
Good Hunting
Elkhunt
G
Guest
Guest
mbrands75":335q178g said:
If the load you are referring to is for the A-Frame from Swift, you should be fine with that as a starting load. The two bullets are very similar in construction, and should be similar in loading. Compare some other known loads for both, and my theory may bear out.
Generally, load data from different companies is going to be different for a variety of reasons. Consider that bullet design, bearing surface, and alloy hardness all differ (in some cases significantly) from one brand to the next, then add in the differences in testing equipment and methodology, and you'll understand the difference. As a rule, if I am loading for a bullet I can't find data for, I contact the bullet manufacturer and ask. If they can't help, I contact the powder manufacturer and ask. Sometimes neither of those sources are much good, and then I go to some educated deduction. I look at all my manuals, and all the manuals I can borrow, as well as online data from the powder companies. I make a little list of what loads are out there for powders I would use, with bullets of the same or very similar weights (within 5gr). I generally can make out some sort of very conservative start load, based on the lower end of the list I have created, and work up carefully from there. Your technique described in your post is similar to mine at the range, so you should be fine, as long as you look for signs of pressure, and have access to a chronograph. I find that last tool to be invaluable for load work when I don't have a book with a specific recipe I want to use. For under $100, you can get the Chrony Alpha Master, which will do all you need to do, and offer you great insurance against some overpressure load that will eventually cause catastrophic failure at what could be a most inopportune time.
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
LIke dubyam said, you seem to know what your doing reguarding the loading part so forgive me on that.
Anyways, I do quite a bit of cross referencing if my particular bullet/powder combo is not in a book. I"ll get recipes from other people on the internet, check a couple different reloading sites, and like I said, just cross reference material. In any case, start low and work up. If you have a cronograph, you can do this quite easily. You can find your own max for your own rifle with your set of components. A different bullet does not really matter a whole lot, maybe at most a grain. Say you wanted to load that 120g Partition, but only have info for the 120g aframe. My advice is, use the starting load for the aframe bullet. Pretty much use good common sense.
I've worked up so many of my own loads that weren't in a book, its nothing new anymore. As long as you have some common sense and a cronograph, its quite easy to come up with your own loads based on pressure/velocity.
I've used everything from H4895-H1000 in my 25-06, and everything inbetween, trust me on that one. Not everytime was there a powder for my particular bullet, or vice versa, so I had to make my own starting point.
Anyways, I do quite a bit of cross referencing if my particular bullet/powder combo is not in a book. I"ll get recipes from other people on the internet, check a couple different reloading sites, and like I said, just cross reference material. In any case, start low and work up. If you have a cronograph, you can do this quite easily. You can find your own max for your own rifle with your set of components. A different bullet does not really matter a whole lot, maybe at most a grain. Say you wanted to load that 120g Partition, but only have info for the 120g aframe. My advice is, use the starting load for the aframe bullet. Pretty much use good common sense.
I've worked up so many of my own loads that weren't in a book, its nothing new anymore. As long as you have some common sense and a cronograph, its quite easy to come up with your own loads based on pressure/velocity.
I've used everything from H4895-H1000 in my 25-06, and everything inbetween, trust me on that one. Not everytime was there a powder for my particular bullet, or vice versa, so I had to make my own starting point.
- Thread starter
- #15
G
Guest
Guest
Glad to hear your satisfied. Nosler is one of the best for customer service.
In reference to bullets not making much of a difference, I have to add one caution. There are some bullets that are highly different than what might be called normal. Among them, the most obvious is the Barnes X, and its variants, as well as GS Custom, which are also all-copper. Lapua makes some bullets with a jacket of something other than copper, and I'd be careful using any old data there. The Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame also generate higher start pressures than traditional single core jacketed bullets, as the cross member doesn't compress like a lead core will, and thus the max loads are usually a tad below identical weight bullets of traditional construction. There are other exceptions, but I think my point is made. When we handload, we really do take our lives in our own hands, so careful consideration is always the order of the day.
In reference to bullets not making much of a difference, I have to add one caution. There are some bullets that are highly different than what might be called normal. Among them, the most obvious is the Barnes X, and its variants, as well as GS Custom, which are also all-copper. Lapua makes some bullets with a jacket of something other than copper, and I'd be careful using any old data there. The Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame also generate higher start pressures than traditional single core jacketed bullets, as the cross member doesn't compress like a lead core will, and thus the max loads are usually a tad below identical weight bullets of traditional construction. There are other exceptions, but I think my point is made. When we handload, we really do take our lives in our own hands, so careful consideration is always the order of the day.
Maybe it is my unforgiving job speaking but I am soo tiered of people bending rules that somehow think they are smarter than the engineers and people who designed the product. And yes I am back from another funeral. If you load Swift bullets use their data simple as that.
I am a conservative person esp. when it comes to small exploding things right next to my face. I have read on this site where others have gone past the max load and have had no signs of over pressure. All jackets are a little different it is proprietary stuff. If Swift says that the max load is x but Nosler says it is a little more than x and the length of bullet surface between Nosler and Swift are the same then I should be good... umm no. If you read anything on testing pressures on barrels or rented a piezoelectric pressure sensing device then you know by the time you can see the signs you are well past the max pressure. Any way call Nosler Swift or Speer whoever never once had a problem with any of em. I once called Speer over the same thing in a 357 round and they said that the Hornady bullet would be able to take more powder than theirs. Huh how about that, a company that knows about the competition.
And at max loads what do I really gain realizing that I can throw a rock over 100fps and well my face is ugly enough. Off my soap box now. Books, a good catridge pressure program and a 100$ Chrony are the way to go.
On another note a 338 210grain NP has a SD of .263 a 257 120grain NP has a SD of .260 Not a big difference in penetration
I am a conservative person esp. when it comes to small exploding things right next to my face. I have read on this site where others have gone past the max load and have had no signs of over pressure. All jackets are a little different it is proprietary stuff. If Swift says that the max load is x but Nosler says it is a little more than x and the length of bullet surface between Nosler and Swift are the same then I should be good... umm no. If you read anything on testing pressures on barrels or rented a piezoelectric pressure sensing device then you know by the time you can see the signs you are well past the max pressure. Any way call Nosler Swift or Speer whoever never once had a problem with any of em. I once called Speer over the same thing in a 357 round and they said that the Hornady bullet would be able to take more powder than theirs. Huh how about that, a company that knows about the competition.
And at max loads what do I really gain realizing that I can throw a rock over 100fps and well my face is ugly enough. Off my soap box now. Books, a good catridge pressure program and a 100$ Chrony are the way to go.
On another note a 338 210grain NP has a SD of .263 a 257 120grain NP has a SD of .260 Not a big difference in penetration
G
Guest
Guest
I think you missed the point of my post, RRIES. I was saying to be careful, but sometimes you can't get data for a specific combination, even from the manufacturer. I ran into that a while back with some 185gr 8mm bullets from Remington. I asked them twice for data, and they directed me to all the various powder manufacturers websites. Having already looked there, I knew there was no such data. So I went about finding data from the powder companies, and extrapolating safe starting points from 180gr bullets in my load manuals. I would never encourage going over max published charge, and in fact have never done this myself. I am extremely safe where handloading is concerned. But there are cases where you cannot find data for a specific bullet and powder combination you have on your bench, and you must extrapolate that information from what you know. If you do this carefully, and to your point, use software simulation and a chronograph to monitor your progress, you should be well within safe limits.
- Oct 30, 2004
- 24,287
- 3,005
Yup! Thay are nice guys! :lol:
remingtonman_25_06
Handloader
- Nov 17, 2005
- 2,807
- 402
RRIES
Well not to try and stir the pot anmore then whats already been said, but if you have actually read anything over the years, you'll know that EVERY rifle is different.
Is your barrel the one Nosler used for there test data??? I think not.
Is your barrel the one swift used for there test data??? Once again, I bet not.
My question to you is this.
If you start low and work up, (with a crony) why cant you substitute one bullet for the other, or go over BOOK LISTED MAX???
Your not gonna "blow your face up". Good lord. Yah maybe if your over by about 10g, not 1 or 2 bud.
LIke I said, every rifles different. You cant rely on manufactures crappy claims trying to keep everybody and there dog safe. There trying to save there ass from idiots out there. Use good commmon sense, for those that have it, and you'll be fine, PERIOD.
Well not to try and stir the pot anmore then whats already been said, but if you have actually read anything over the years, you'll know that EVERY rifle is different.
Is your barrel the one Nosler used for there test data??? I think not.
Is your barrel the one swift used for there test data??? Once again, I bet not.
My question to you is this.
If you start low and work up, (with a crony) why cant you substitute one bullet for the other, or go over BOOK LISTED MAX???
Your not gonna "blow your face up". Good lord. Yah maybe if your over by about 10g, not 1 or 2 bud.
LIke I said, every rifles different. You cant rely on manufactures crappy claims trying to keep everybody and there dog safe. There trying to save there ass from idiots out there. Use good commmon sense, for those that have it, and you'll be fine, PERIOD.
