264 and 140 amax, not so good...

[remingtonman_25_06]

I've been trying to get the 140 amax to shoot in my early 80s mint condition model 70 XTR w/24" bbl in 264 WM and cant seem to get anything going consistency wise. The only thing it does consistent is throw a big 1-2" flyer at 100 yards everytime, with almost every powder/load/OAL/primer combo so far. Its not always the 3rd, sometimes the first 2 are good with the 3rd being the culprit, other times its the 2nd and 3rd that are tight with the 1st being the culprit.

Everythings tight, action screws, base/rings, trigger is 2lbs, shooting off a bench rest in no wind conditions, allowing barrel to cool minute or two inbetween each shot.

Im kinda stumped as to why it wont shoot the AMAX, and a bit dissappointed at the same time. IMO, this is THE 6.5mm bullet for a dual purpose LR target/hunting bullet and the one I've had my eyes set on ever since I wanted a 6.5mm for LR deer/target. For the price/performance the AMAX line is very hard to beat, usually...

On the box it says a 7.5" twist is needed. Well I've found that to not always be true. Only way to tell for sure is to get bullets downrange. Now my 264 has the standard 9" twist and its leaving round holes at 100 and 625 yards, plus its putting 2 of 3 either touching or within 1/2" at 100 yards everytime with the better 1 or 2 loads, so I dont possibly see how this is a stabilzation problem unless its just really that close to being borderline. Even so, I've read many people shooting the 140 amax and getting great results with 9" twist in plenty 260s, 6.5-06s, and 264s. So again, I dont see how it could be a stability issue when I'm pushing them just as fast or faster then what everyone else is using them in and getting good results. Maybe this barrel just doesn't like them.

Anyways, I have tried H1000, H4831sc, and Retumbo, started with Fed 215/H1000, then went to CCI250 for all 3 powders to test. I've done the most testing with H1000/H4831sc/CCI250 as those 2 powders proved to be the more accurate/consistent of the 3. Retumbo just plain sucked, was all over in ES and accuracy was horrible.

First time out with H1000 and Fed215, 67.5g gave me a 3 shot .5" group, 3108,3115,3129fps. OAL was 3.315" which is at the lands in this rifle. I loaded up a few of these to double check and never repeated the group at 100 yards. It would always throw 1 out very bad. I tried .005" and .010" in and off the lands all to no avail.

The target below was 100 yards OAL testing of H1000/67.5g and 2 groups fired at 625 yards with the 67.5g H1000/3.315" load. The upper left group at 625 was suppose to be the good load of 67.5g H1000 at 3.315" but as you can see it throws the 3rd aways at 625 yards, still puts 2 close tho, rollin my eyes...The other 4 groups are .010" off, .005" off, at the lands 3.315", and .005" in with 67.5g H1000, as you can see, things dont seem to change much.

This target also at 625 yards. Group in middle was the same 67.5g H1000/3.315" at the lands. The group on the left and right are 95g vmax 74g/H1000, they hold MOA to 625...Nice even triangles, no 8-12" flyer garbage. Notice the 140 AMAXs are still leaving round holes to 625 and putting 2 within inches of each other, how would this be a stability issue if anything?

So I switched primers to CCI250 for more serious testing as I was about to run out of Fed215s and I cannot find them anywhere. I decided to back off H1000 down to 63, 64, and 65, keep the OAL at 3.315" at the lands and try again. 63 did a horrible triangle and 64 and 65 did the classic 2 within .5" and threw 1 out 1.5-2"

63g-3117,3118,3111
64g-3142,3148,3152
65g-3183,3190,3197

I had 3 loads with Retumbo at 65, 66, and 67 as well at 3.315" at the lands with CCI250s again. These were the worst as far as accuracy and velocity. 66 and 67 did however put 2 within .5" but had a flyer of 1.5"-2"

65g-3165,3119,3102
66g-3164,3160,1885???
67g-3260,3224,3199

Last powder of the day I had to try was H4831sc at 60, 61, and 62, at 3.315" with CCI250s. These were very consistent velocity wise as well, but not quite as tight as H1000. 60g had 2 within .5" and and threw the other 1" 61g shot a great group of .5" at 3125fps. I thought to myself, ok, need to double check this load for sure, since the same thing happened with the H1000 load before that shot good 1 time out and then never again. 62g shot a big 3" triangle

60g-3065,3092,3094
61g-3134,3125,3130
62g-3156,3158,3150

Top target is H1000, 63g is the top load, 64g was top load in circle, 65g was lower in the circle. Left target is H4831sc, 60 at the bottom, wonder load of 61 in the middle, 62 at the top. Retumbo target is on the right, 65 being on bottom, 66 middle, 67 on top.

So came home loaded up 3@ 60.5g because if you look, 60g was a lot more promising (2 within .5" threw the 3rd 1") then the 62g load, and a .5g less then 61g at 60.5g would seem to make a more sensible choice to fine tune then going up .5g to 61.5g since the 62g load was horrible at 3". Also more importantly loaded 7 more rounds of what seemed to be my load for the 61g H4831, 3.315" load to shoot 2 more groups, 1 being a 3 shot group, the other being a 4 shot group. Well what do ya know, typical big flyers again on the load that shot .5" day before. The first group of 3, 2 went in .5" and threw the 3rd about 2", the 2nd group of 4 put the last 3 in .5", but the 1st shot was 2" low of the other other 3. I also loaded 2 more loads with the thought to be 61g magic load with 2 shorter OALs to see if things would improve, they did not, infact they got worse.

Lower left was 60.5g at 3.315", lower right and upper right were to recheck wonder load of 61g at 3.315", middle was 61g at 3.275", top left was 61g at 3.245"

So, my last thought is that I"m going to try the wonder load 61g h4831sc at 3.315" one more time which is at the lands, then 3.325" and 3.335" which will put them at .010" and .020" in the lands. If this doesn't tighten things up, I've done all I can and know how to do to get a bullet to shoot. I'm also going to retry the wonder load of 67.5g H1000, another time at 3.325" which is .010" in the lands to see if I cant get rid of that dam flyer, and another at 3.335" which is again .020" in. So that leaves me with 5 more 3 shot groups to test from this box of 140 AMAXs. If nothing doesn't change, which I'm not expecting it will much, then I'm gonna start working with the 120g NBTs. I know they'll shoot

 

[SJB358]

Nice run down. Pretty interesting. Right now I am getting a 3rd round flyer also in the 130gr AB's. It is consistently the 3rd round, first two are pretty close and the 3rd is kinda a shank. I think my issue is the barrel is getting too hot. It is a Sporter weight barrel and it can't take the heat of three consecutive shots without a little cooling. Two shots seems to plant them.


67gr RL22

64gr RL22

63gr RL22

Anyhow, just figured it would give you some hope mine is doing the same thing as yours, kind of. Scotty

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Remmy, my .338 did the same thing to me until I started adjusting AOL in .005 increments until I found the magic length.

If was was going to try a different powder, I'd want it as different as possible, say RL22, or even W760, VT n570. I"m not saying any would necessarliy work but some times you just need a major change in what happening in the chamber.

Where you've had some luck with H4831, you may try that with CCI200 or WMRP's. That's where I've had the best luck with H4831.

Also some guns just don't like certain bullets. I have one that just won't shoot Sierra game kings, but shoots everything else great.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

Mine is not always doing it on the 3rd shot, so I know its not due to barrel heating up. I let them cool couple minutes between each shot so they never get heated up.

I tried a couple different lengths in .005" increments in and off the lands but still no changes. I tried going .030"-.040" increments like Berger recomends then fine tune from there, but nothing really changed. Really the only thing I havent tried is jamming them in there a bit...So were gonna go that route this next last time out. If they all shoot good and somewhat get rid of that flyer then I might buy another box and tinker with em some more, as it is now, I just sold my 2 boxes. I'm really not expecting them to shoot all that better .010" or .020" in the lands though, would be great if they did, but I'm not getting my hopes up anymore.

I was wanting to try Rl25 at least, then RL22, but I am a Hodgons extreme line guy anymore and thought I could find something with 4831, h1000, or Retumbo, all 3 known performers in the 264. If I end up buying another box in the future, I'll definately give the Rl22-25 a shot.

 

[SJB358]

Good Luck Jorey. I imagine if other bullets can be loaded to shoot the way you want your probably better off with them. Especially with the way the 264 throws heat on the barrel. What about the Hornady 129gr or 140gr SST. They both sport pretty decent BC and are kinda reasonable in price. Anyhow I am looking forward to more load work. Scotty

 

[1Shot]

My 264 Win mag 9 twist really likes 130 Accubonds with Retumbo. I shoot them 10 thousands off the lands. They do not explode on deer inside 100 yards at 3350 fps muzzle velocity like most of the cup and core bullets do but they open up and hold together the same at close range as they do at long range. I have only recovered one of them from a deer. Out of 5 kills, all bang flop, from 80 to 250 yards I recovered one from a buck shot at 111 yards. Bullet entered it's left shoulder as it faced me with a slight left shoulder angle. Bullet smashed the front shoulder made soup of the vitals and was found in the right ham when I cut the meat up. Bullet weight was 87 grs with a text book mushroom.

Does your rifle shoot other boat tail bullets well? I have a Shilen barrel 25-06 that just plain does not like BT bullets but it will shoot like a house a fire with flat based bullets.

 

[FOTIS]

2 and 1 = bedding. :wink:

 

[SJB358]

Man Fotis, why do you always have to be the voice of reason! Scotty

 

[FOTIS]

I do not all but what I know I know from experience Scottie. I have had 2 super grades and 2 Model 70 in 264. All shot the same as above until I removed the hot glue bedding and re did them with acraglass. Some wanted the pressure point up front, some wanted the freefloat method. 8)

 

[SJB358]

Man, all this common sense is killing me! It all ends up as extra dang work! Scotty