.264WM....is it the Intermediate Range answer?

[Anonymous]

The recent (and flagrant ) thread with the .264 has got me thinking...and that usually spells trouble.

My caribou hunting was weird this year and myself and my companions all made 300yd or so shots to take game- that's unusual for us. I've historically been reluctant to shoot much over 250 and 300 was about the upper limit and most animals are at about 100yds. For whatever reason I was able to close to within 350-500yds of dozens of animals but only a couple under 200yds. My area saw much more hunting pressure this year than in years past but it may have just been a fluke.

I've also been something of a critic of what I think is true long range hunting- 600yds and up, but that isn't really the conversation I want to start as it's more about murky topics like ethics than riflery. I just don't have much interest in shooting animals that far and don't want to open that can of worms.

What I'm wondering is what type of performace could one expect of something like the .264WM (and it's not the only choice) at ,for lack of a better term, intermediate range. Something like 300 to 500yds under variable conditions? I realize the definitions are pretty arbitrary, but it's the best I can do. Something with real wind bucking capability and decent terminal performance on caribou/mule deer sized game.

I've got to keep recoil manageble so the .300 Ultra and .338Lapua class is out and rifle weight should be less than 10lbs scoped. I've given some thought to the .270Wby and .257Wby. and have a .270WIN but think something a little hotter might be in order.

Any ideas?

 

[DrMike]

With the appropriate bullet, performance would be excellent at ranges out to 500 yards with the 264WM, or the 7RM, or the 270WSM, or the 270WBY, or the ... Well, you get the idea. These cartridges are designed to reach out and tag game at those ranges.

 

[Guest]

Anything in the class of rifles you've mentioned would suffice, I'm sure. As would a 7mmRemMag, with recoil much like a 30-06.

Of course, I'm partial to the 270Wby, and nobody is surprised to see that in print again. I don't think there's a better round for North America out to 500yds or so. Maybe once you pass that point the heavier stuff takes over, but the 270Wby is just about as flat and fast as one can get (flatter, in fact, than the 257Wby in typical deer hunting trim...though others will debate that) and offers very manageable recoil for just about any shooter. It's lower than the -06, and not too much higher than a 270Win. For what you gain, I think the 270Wby is ideal. Of course, any of the short magnum 270/7mm's would also do, though none will match the velocity for a given BC of the 270Wby.

As for the concept in general, it's a dead ringer for the job assigned to my 270'bee. I like that rifle for open areas where I might get a 100yd shot, but I might get a 400yd shot. My personal limit is 500yds, but that requires a perfect setup and perfect conditions, so I've not taken that shot in the field yet. Of course, I've not had to pass on game for lack of getting closer, yet, either. I'm sure both days are coming. So I guess I'm saying, after several years of doing just exactly what you outlined, it's a solid plan. I prefer a 26" barrel, and a good scope, so I'm shooting a Mark V wearing a 4-20x50 Minox ZA5. Of course, this rifle started out wearing a 3-9x40, then moved up to a 4.5-14x42. Both of those scopes served well. I only upgraded because I'm moving this rifle more into the intermediate range role, as I've acquired some other tools to use at closer distances. I think you'd be in good shape with a 24 or 26" barrel, and a strong chambering, in a sporter weight. You can get one that is plenty accurate enough (2moa at 500yds will kill white-tails) and still well under 10lbs. Even my Mark V, which is a bit heavy, runs 9.5-9.7lbs loaded and ready to hunt.

Good luck with the evolution of this idea for your use. Keep us posted on what you decide!

 

[Anonymous]

dubyam- I gotta admit...the .270Wby is seeming pretty interesting.

Are you shooting factory loads or reloading? .270Wby is much more available here (that's surprising) and for what I'd have in building a .264WM, I could basically buy a darn nice MkV off the rack. Since I'm breaking all my long held opinions- wonder if a brake (God forbid, I said it) might be valuable...at the ranges I'm talking, earplugs won't be a problem.

Looking at the MkV ULW has me wondering too but I've dealt with a couple that had sporadic accuracy.

 

[Ridge_Runner]

dubyam- I gotta admit...the .270Wby is seeming pretty interesting.

Are you shooting factory loads or reloading? .270Wby is much more available here (that's surprising) and for what I'd have in building a .264WM, I could basically buy a darn nice MkV off the rack. Since I'm breaking all my long held opinions- wonder if a brake (God forbid, I said it) might be valuable...at the ranges I'm talking, earplugs won't be a problem.

Looking at the MkV ULW has me wondering too but I've dealt with a couple that had sporadic accuracy.

for shooting extended ranges I really like a brake, the main advantage of them are they allow you to see your bullet impacts through the scope.
and its not really the caliber or cartridge, any of the rounds mentioned here and many more will do what ya wanna do, depending on what method ya wanna use, the 7 rums and stw's (and others of the same class) will get it done to 500 using holdover, others ya need to compensate more, but just pick a good heavy for caliber high BC bullet and set it up right and practice, its not a big deal.
RR

 

[IdahoCTD]

The 7mm's usually have higher BC's than the 6.5mm's yet lower recoil than the .30's and .338's. So provided the velocity is close to equal the 7's are a better choice. They do have more recoil but it's generally not beyond the tolerance of the average shooter. The .270's are the bastard children due to lower BC bullets. Something along the lines of what I did with my 7-300wm would be near perfect for what you want. A standard 7rm, a 7lrm, a 7STW all would get the job done as well. A 7mm, with the exception of possibly the 7STW, would generally have better barrel life as well.

 

[Guest]

dubyam- I gotta admit...the .270Wby is seeming pretty interesting.

Are you shooting factory loads or reloading? .270Wby is much more available here (that's surprising) and for what I'd have in building a .264WM, I could basically buy a darn nice MkV off the rack. Since I'm breaking all my long held opinions- wonder if a brake (God forbid, I said it) might be valuable...at the ranges I'm talking, earplugs won't be a problem.

Looking at the MkV ULW has me wondering too but I've dealt with a couple that had sporadic accuracy.

I'm shooting handloads, hodgeman. And I'm shooting through a Mark V Synthetic. I found this one on a steal of a deal or I'd likely have bought a FiberMark or Sporter version. And I might have made a mistake about it, too, in terms of chambering, as I was looking for a 257Wby when I ran into the deal on this rifle. If I were buying, I'd get a Synthetic or a Fibermark. A good synthetic can be had reasonably, and if you spend another $250 for the Bell&Carlson Medalist stock (on my to-do list) you'll have just about the best sub-10lb sporter setup I can imagine. I'd hold off on the brake initially, as well, as I suspect you'll find the recoil to be highly manageable. My thinking here is you can always add the brake after the fact. But that's up to you.

Idaho is right about the various 7mms, except for the whole .277cal BC issue. That may have been an issue in the past, but there are so many great bullets now available, with BCs comparable to the .284cal class of bullets, comparing equal weight for caliber, it's a non-issue. I've had no trouble getting a 320yd maximum Point Blank Range with my 270Wby. I'm shooting a 130gr E-Tip at 3420fps. I could get a tad more range (5-10yds) with a faster lead-core offering, such as the Hornady Interbond, Nosler AccuBond, or Swift Scirocco, but the E-Tip does what I want and it holds up well. So far, shots at 175 and 25yds have the same exit holes - about a half-dollar or maybe a smidge smaller. And the 25yd shot was in the chest, down the spine, exiting just above and to the right of the tail of a 140+ pound white-tail buck, so I know penetration is stellar. That shot got me >4' of penetration and the bullet held together and tracked true through the buck.

The other advantage of the 270Wby, for whatever reason, is velocity. Comparing it to other similar case-sized rounds (257Wby, 7mmWby, 264WinMag) it appears to get just a fuzz more velocity from a given bullet weight, again comparing equal weight for caliber bullets. Being able to push a stout 130gr bullet at 3400-3500fps (using current, published data) gives this round a leg up on others. The 140gr in the 7mm is only running about 3300 and change, and in the 257, a 110gr isn't coming along at but about 3400 or so, and has a much lower BC. The 264 is close, but with a 120gr bullet only provides about 3300fps from data I have onhand. Even factoring in another 2" of barrel for the 264 (to get it to 26") you won't gain 200fps.

In reality, any of the above will make a fine choice for what you're intending. But a 270Wby in a Mark V is just the very best. Trust me on this one.

 

[gerry]

I would look at the 264 WM, 270 Wby, 270 WSM, 7mm RM or 7mm Wby if you are serious about shooting to 500 yards. The two Weatherby's will be more expensive to feed than the others because of brass prices. The 264 WM will kick a bit less than the others bit the rest wouln't be punishing by any means.

 

[FOTIS]

It will reach out!

125 PT at 3350 fps

264 model 70 Super grade Buck at 501 yards.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Hodgeman, any of the cartridges based on the standard belted magnum would do fine:

i.e.:
.264 Win mag
7mm Win Mag
30-338
or even a .338 Win mag.

My .338's set up for the type of shot you describe.
I reserve the long range stuff for the 7mm STW, and .308.

 

[6mm Remington]

It will reach out!

125 PT at 3350 fps

264 model 70 Super grade Buck at 501 yards.

Fotis it looks like the proof is in the picture! I think all the responses have been pretty spot on. All good choices given.

 

[mcseal2]

My 264 does very well at those ranges. A turret matched to the ballistics, a reticle with windage marks, and a lot of practice help too.

 

[SJB358]

Here is another vote for the 264 Win Mag. With a 26" barrel, your looking at 3350 or so with 130's, nearly 3200 with the 140's. The bullets have pretty good BC but they also have alot of SD, which is a nice thing as well. The 140 BT's shoot a hair under 3200 in my Model 70, the rifle is a pretty nice handling set up that doesn't weigh a ton either.

Nothing wrong with the 270 WSM or WBY either, but the 264 is lighter in recoil and seems to be very easy to shoot for most guys. It is the one cartridge I always wanted, and once I finally got my hands on one, I love it to pieces. Light recoil and excellent ballistics.

 

[Rigbymauser]

In reality, any of the above will make a fine choice for what you're intending. But a 270Wby in a Mark V is just the very best. Trust me on this one.

I can vouch for you 100%.

I have a pre-64 Win with a 27" Lilja barrel in .270Wea. With 150grain nosler Par @ close to 3300 ft/sec. In my book the .270bee is THE caliber. There are others like FOTIS .264 Win that would do very well, but the Bee has the sting. One can might say the .277cal is the ideal caliber for that casevolume the case offer.

 

[usmc 89]

i think the 6.5-284 will serve just as well out to 500 as any of the others mentioned, with more efficiency. I have used that round past the 500 mark with success on deer and antelope.

 

[FOTIS]

Then again My 7mm rum 160/162 gr at 3305 fps is not too shabby either.

 

[Rigbymauser]

Nice sako!!

 

[Thankful Otter]

The recent (and flagrant ) thread with the .264 has got me thinking...and that usually spells trouble.

My caribou hunting was weird this year and myself and my companions all made 300yd or so shots to take game- that's unusual for us. I've historically been reluctant to shoot much over 250 and 300 was about the upper limit and most animals are at about 100yds. For whatever reason I was able to close to within 350-500yds of dozens of animals but only a couple under 200yds. My area saw much more hunting pressure this year than in years past but it may have just been a fluke.

I've also been something of a critic of what I think is true long range hunting- 600yds and up, but that isn't really the conversation I want to start as it's more about murky topics like ethics than riflery. I just don't have much interest in shooting animals that far and don't want to open that can of worms.

What I'm wondering is what type of performace could one expect of something like the .264WM (and it's not the only choice) at ,for lack of a better term, intermediate range. Something like 300 to 500yds under variable conditions? I realize the definitions are pretty arbitrary, but it's the best I can do. Something with real wind bucking capability and decent terminal performance on caribou/mule deer sized game.

I've got to keep recoil manageble so the .300 Ultra and .338Lapua class is out and rifle weight should be less than 10lbs scoped. I've given some thought to the .270Wby and .257Wby. and have a .270WIN but think something a little hotter might be in order.

Any ideas?

Hodgeman, any of the ones you mentioned will do the job. My grandfather and husband collect and use Weatherby rifles, and we have used them all successfully. To be honest on long shots at Caribou the 257 will work very well, but so does the 270 and 7mm ( of those two the 7mm would be a tad better for what your intended purpose is ) However if your considering a brake, and in response to your statement above that perhaps something a little hotter might be in order, I would recommend the 300 as you get the best of all worlds, distance, knock down power, and the ability to use it on a larger variety of game. I understood your less recoil statement, but you also mentioned a brake. Any of the above mentioned can be under or right at 10 pounds scoped. my husband uses the 340 the most ( even on Caribou ) and it will also reach out and touch something and a brake will help with the recoil. The 300 will give you the distance you are looking for in a 150 gr and then you can use the same rifle with 180 gr for Elk . If you are just looking for a smaller caliber for one specific purpose, long range caribou hunting, the 257, 270 or 7mm will work well for you. Obviously there are non weatherby calibers that would also work well.

Hodgeman, I just noticed your neck injury thread. first let me say, I am sorry this has happened to you. and I know you know all this, but maybe on the next rifle have the stock custom built for you, keep it as close to ten pounds as possible, one of the many recoil pads, and a brake on the rifle. I have always felt some rifles give me more of a shove than a pop on the shoulder. The 375 H & H seems to push me, as the 338 win may seems to pop me. All the best in your choice of a caribou rifle and with your neck.

 

[SJB358]

Then again My 7mm rum 160/162 gr at 3305 fps is not too shabby either.

That Sako is very sharp Fotis... I like that rifle alot. What do you have on it for optics?

 

[FOTIS]

Leupold long range 4x5x14x40mm VX3 cds dials 30mm tube.