280 Remington 160 Gr Loads

[Touch not Squeeze]

Hi Forum,
I need some load data for a 280 Remington. The situation is: My brother goes to Canada each year, and the guy they hunt with (that lives there), shoots 160 Winchester Fail Safes (I have the factory specs for those). I was asked to load up some rounds for him, that are similar in ballistics. I am looking for OAL and powder charge for 160 Gr rounds, preferably Barnes XLC/TSX or Partition bullets (please also include case length and rifle make). They are leaving in 9 days, and they need them (nice notice, but that's family).

 

[Powerstroke]

Just for curiosity............would he look at the Ballistic Tips or better yet, the Accubonds?...

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

Just for curiosity............would he look at the Ballistic Tips or better yet, the Accubonds?...

You know, those are not out of the question. The guy was impressed with the XLCs out of my brothers 257 Wby. When I was pondering which round to load in the 257, I took in to consideration that the shots could vary between 50 and 400 yards, depending on which way the deer came in. I thought the Ballistic Tips would be great for the 100-150+ shots, but I have had them pencil through on me before, inside of 100yds (at higher speeds). The Partition bullets out of this gun would be good-great at all distances, however the Ballistic Tips would have better down range accurracy. The problem I had was, the shots up to 75 yards, at a MV of 3500fps. I was concerned of how the bullet would act at that speed, that close. I asked my brother what is your preferred shot? He said he was going to shoot for the shoulder. I asked him, if it's clear, why not the neck? Your a SWAT team sniper for gosh sakes! He said, for the money I am paying, I am taking a high percentage shot. I said ok, that's fine. So now, I had to take the worse case scenario. So I was thinking 50 yards @ 3500 fps, what bullet will hold together the best. The down range and close target accurracy of the XLC was very very good. So I went with it. He ended up shooting a 230 lb-10 pt whitetail @ 75 yards in the shoulder. This is the weird part. He shot the deer broadside, it flipped out when it was hit, and went about 20 yards. As he examined the 'wound'.....on the deer, he found that he had only 1 hole. The problem was, it looked like the exit wound, but it was on the wrong side. Picture someone taking a 4 inch holesaw, and drilling a hole 5 inches deep through bone and everything. That's what it looked like. I think is what happened was, that bullet hit just right, where it didn't deflect, and the energy and bullet retreated right back out. All I know about ballistics and bullets, tells me this can't happen, but I also know that weird things can happen. The bullet might have disintegrated, but I don't know how the hole would form then. Regardless it was pretty remarkable. So, the guy I am loading for said he wanted that bullet. I just didn't want to suggest another bullet, and have it fail, and the wall hanger runs away and I get blamed. If the XLC fails, his decision, his fault.

 

[FOTIS]

...........I thought the Ballistic Tips would be great for the 100-150+ shots, but I have had them pencil through on me before, inside of 100yds (at higher speeds). ........

Pencil through at less than 100 yards but ok at longer ranges.

If we take the BT's construction into consideration this is physically impossible.

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

...........I thought the Ballistic Tips would be great for the 100-150+ shots, but I have had them pencil through on me before, inside of 100yds (at higher speeds). ........

Pencil through at less than 100 yards but ok at longer ranges.

If we take the BT's construction into consideration this is physically impossible.

Not at all, when you get into the higher MVs at close range. It had happened to me before, and I didn't know why. When I took game at further distances with the same point of aim, it worked wonderfully. I read an article somewhere, don't remember where but it was a reputable resource, on why this was happening. I think the jackets peel off the bullet, and the rest pencils through with no expansion. Outside of 100ish yards, the bullet has slowed enough, for it to operate correctly. I might have read it in a reloading manual, which tipped me off to why. I don't know if the Ballistic Tip doesn't have enough front surface area for high speed close up, or what.

 

[Powerstroke]

This is one of those I don't like thinking about or admiting as far as the out-come. I've used balistic tips for quite sometime now due to their accuracy. I'm all about shot placement, not size of caliber. I'm in CO, where long rage is quite often, right where the balistic tip is at home. A few years ago, I ended up shooting a bull at 65yds 150grn B-tip out of a .280. Shot placement was "behind" the shoulder. Second shot, I can't say for sure ( believe I missed, but was at the neck ) Third shot, I know hit the neck. After two days of looking, we never found the bull. It is my belief that the bullet never had a chance to expand as designed due to the short distance...???? I've since switched to A.B.'s, but at close distances, I'll be making sure there is bone contact one way or another.
On second note, I've also stated before, that I have a 40grn B-tip that was recovered from a yote.......shot out of my 22-250 at aprox 3900fps. I'd have to weigh again, but I know it didn't loose more than a couple grians.....the orange tip is still pretty much there.
Once the trigger is pulled, who knows what will happen, all we can do is stack the odds in our favor with quality products !!

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

Knowing there was a very outside chance of this happening, I wasn't about to take a chance. After all it was about 2 grand he stuck into the trip to Canada, and I didn't want him to watch a wall hanger run away, and also his $2000. But it is about the hunt itself after all, but it's nice to bring home a poppa.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

I dont know, sounds kinda iffy to me. How can a Partition expand better then a btip inside 100 yards?? It does seem physically impossible due to bullet construction. No matter what the circumstance, a BT should always expand more and at a higer rate then a Partition, no matter distance, caliber, weight of bullet or what. I just dont see this happening, and it doesn't make sense. I've shot quite a few coyotes and deer, and seen just as many shot with btips inside 100 yards and let me tell you they did not just "pencil through." To think that a Partition, which is a tougher constructed bullet, will expand faster at close range is just hard to swallow is all I"m saying.

 

[JD338]

BT's are designed to expand very quickly. The impact velocity range this bullet is designed for is 1600 - 3000 fps.The polycarbonate tip covers a large hollowpoint so extream velovity is going to make the BT come unglued. Many times the small exit wound is thought to be the result of a non expanding bullet when in reality, the exit wound was from the solid base. The rest of the jacket did its job of causing trauma inside the vitals.
My experience with BT's is limited to 22 cal 50 gr, 243 cal 70 gr and 7mm 140 gr bullets and I have always experienced expansion.
The 140 gr BT has taken quite a few WT deer and a couple of bull Caribou. Complete penetration on everything from 10 yds to over 300 yds with the exception of 1 WT doe shot at 150 yds. That bullet was recovered under the hide. Every other exit was the size of a quarter.
I am not doubting what you have said, just reporting my experience.

280 Rem and recovered 140 gr BT from WT doe at 150 yds.

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JD338

 

[Desert Fox]

I never heard nor experienced Ballistic Tip not expanding at short ranges. On the contrary, my experience was the opposite. All the animal I had taken with my 280 with 150 grain Ballistic Tips at a modest velocity of 2980 fps always have bigger entrance hole on the one I had shot at short ranges, suggesting violent expansions. On longer ranges though, beyond 300 yards, entrance hole were usually very small but with large exit hole. With only few pieces of splintered jacket and red plastic tips to show, I still have to recover any bullet.

 

[Touch not Squeeze]

Good points by everyone. Keep in mind the tip of the bullet. A Partition bullet doesn't really have a point, as the BT. Additionally the Partition bullets tip is softer than the polycarbonate, as it is unjacketed lead. I imagine everyone has seen the difference of the 2 when you had to "unload" one in your inertia hammer. The BT breaks off, or bends, whereas the Partition bullet's tip starts to mushroom. The weight retention of the Partition bullet, is primarily in the backend of the bullet. I don't have any facts, but in my opinion, I feel that the BT may have a tougher jacket on it, than the Partition bullet, because it doesn't have the that copper sectioned off area in the rear of the BT (and the term is slipping my mind) However, we are talking about 2 way different animals. Certainly, the 280 would be just fine with a BT, but I originally varied from the BT to an XLC when I was loading the 257 Wby. That is about a difference of 700 fps. Things change at these ultra high speeds, when you start to get further up the weight scale of bullets.

 

[fredj338]

...........I thought the Ballistic Tips would be great for the 100-150+ shots, but I have had them pencil through on me before, inside of 100yds (at higher speeds). ........

Pencil through at less than 100 yards but ok at longer ranges.

If we take the BT's construction into consideration this is physically impossible.

Pop is exactly right, just not possible. I have tested NBTs myself in wetpack @ 50yds & they almost explode at impact vel. over 2800fps. Stretch out the range so the bullet impact slows to under 2600fps & they perform ok. Me, the NP is where it's at for unknown shot opportunites. They stay together at 50yds & give good penetration & expand well enough @ 400yds to offer clean kills. My personal experience. :?

 

[captdavid]

A friend complained of this same thing on two deer. 7mag 150gn BTs federall factory load. Deer were between 100-150yds. Both ran at shot, no, or almost no, blood trail and were found within 50-60yds. We hunt in the South Texas brush, so a blood trail, even if the deer only goes 50yds, is a big help. Both were shot behind the shoulder, hit a rib, the insides were 'mush. ' There was a small exit. The bullet did the job that it was designed to do. It dumped energy and 'shrapnel' inside the deer. Maybe an AccuBond would have caused less trama, but left a blood trail. Although I'm not sure an animal begins to leave a blood trail immedietly capt david

 

[fredj338]

Well you don't get massive internal damage by a bullet that "pencils" through. My guess is the bullet explodes, loose the jacket & the base core punches on through do to the high vel. A bullet that "pencils" through odes exactly that, full caliber hole w/ no massive internal damage. The Nosler Partition was made for hunting big game. The NBT, well, maybe small deer & varmints but bullets are cheap, even premium ones. I'll stick to the NP for all of my hunting.