30-06 Loads

[DrMike]

I think the kid is onto something.

Guy

Hmmmm. This could cause a lot of people to rethink their biases. :grin:

 

[SJB358]

I think the kid is onto something.

Guy

Hmmmm. This could cause a lot of people to rethink their biases. :grin:

It's gotten into my head a little.. A little..

 

[DrMike]

I think the kid is onto something.

Guy

Hmmmm. This could cause a lot of people to rethink their biases. :grin:

It's gotten into my head a little.. A little..

So, you're saying there's a possibility? Or have you moved closer to probability? :shock:

 

[SJB358]

So, you're saying there's a possibility? Or have you moved closer to probability? :shock:

There is ALWAYS a possibility... It is just finding the right one I guess.

 

[truck driver]

Been using one it seems like for ever. :mrgreen:

 

[nosler06]

I don't usually seek the hottest load my rifle will stand, or even the max load in the manuals. Sometimes it works out that way, as in the case of my .25-06, I got great results with max level loads, also the .308 Win.

With my .30-06, I don't see any real need to push it, though the cartridge is capable of stellar performance, and you're certainly getting excellent velocity with yours. I usually load the 165's to about 2750 - 2800 fps, and the 180's at around 2700 - 2750 fps.

Can't say there's ever been a shot I didn't take, because the velocity wasn't 100 fps higher. Haven't had any complaints from the game hit either. They all seemed to think impact velocity was at least adequate... :grin:

With a hunting load, I look for reliable performance. Time after time. Good accuracy is a must. High velocity is optional.

Regards, Guy

Exactly right Guy. I, well I should say my 30-06 likes the 180 NP and 55.0gr H4350 for an average of 2738 fps. Once I found the best OAL to tighten the group to sub 1" I do not think there is an animal where I am that is going to care that I could push another 100 fps or so out of it. As long as that bullet is hitting where I am aiming that it what matters to me. Now it would be different if I was target shooting only, but for a hunting rifle and a little target fun it's bang on.

 

[Oldtrader3]

I have already rethought the .30-06 with 165 bullets. I can get about 2850 fps with Partition 165 grain bullets and 58.5 grains of IMR 4350. This is a load that has been around since I started loading and it works! That is why I bought the Oryx 180 grain loads to get the Norma cases for loading.

 

[Hegland]

-01.0 105 57.42 2793 2909 59682 10109 96.8 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 58.00 2821 2969 61687 10197 97.1 1.058 ! Near Maximum !

I got 2780 at 57.5 grains and right at 2800 at 58.0 grains. Got to love QL!

Hodgdon 4350 gave slightly more speed, slightly better statistics, and slightly better accuracy. This was the case in both rifles I tried it in, a 700 and an M70, both with 22" barrels. I think both loads would benefit from seating depth tweaks.

These guys are right; that bullet weight at those speeds are proven freezer-fillers. Best of luck as you develop your own.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I believe you may have a larger chamber,that allows your case to grow more, but I think anything but about 50FPS difference has had more to do with chamber dimensions than anything else. Give me some H20 capacities of your case, and lets see where it stacks up CC.

I took an average of ten cases and water capacity was 69.38gr to the very top of the brass with barely any meniscus. Not certain where "usable water capacity" would be determined in QL's data field.

 

[DrMike]

I believe you may have a larger chamber,that allows your case to grow more, but I think anything but about 50FPS difference has had more to do with chamber dimensions than anything else. Give me some H20 capacities of your case, and lets see where it stacks up CC.

I took an average of ten cases and water capacity was 69.38gr to the very top of the brass with barely any meniscus. Not certain where "usable water capacity" would be determined in QL's data field.

Use deoxygenated water (let the water set in an open container overnight). Fill until you get a pronounced convex meniscus. The weight of the water is taken as equivalent to the case capacity in grains.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I took an average of ten cases and water capacity was 69.38gr to the very top of the brass with barely any meniscus. Not certain where "usable water capacity" would be determined in QL's data field.[/quote="DrMike] Use deoxygenated water (let the water set in an open container overnight). Fill until you get a pronounced convex meniscus. The weight of the water is taken as equivalent to the case capacity in grains.

Just so happens that I used water that had been in a glass I left on my bench from last night. Used a wide bore syringe to fill the cases. The meniscus was noticeable but not pronounced. When I maxed out surface tension of the water it was a smidge (scientific term for the unedumacated..) higher. A quick dab with a Q-tip would lower it ever so slightly to the level which I weighed the cases at.

 

[Oldtrader3]

-01.0 105 57.42 2793 2909 59682 10109 96.8 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 58.00 2821 2969 61687 10197 97.1 1.058 ! Near Maximum !

I got 2780 at 57.5 grains and right at 2800 at 58.0 grains. Got to love QL!

Hodgdon 4350 gave slightly more speed, slightly better statistics, and slightly better accuracy. This was the case in both rifles I tried it in, a 700 and an M70, both with 22" barrels. I think both loads would benefit from seating depth tweaks.

These guys are right; that bullet weight at those speeds are proven freezer-fillers. Best of luck as you develop your own.

I must apologize for a lack of accuracy on some of my really old load figures. Some of my numbers are based on a certain rifle, maybe not even the one that I am using now. Rifles bores and chambers vary a little as well and some of my numbers come from older weapons that I chrono'ed, some from recent numbers that I verified in my particular, specific rifle.

It doesn't much even matter even for 50 feet per second because these verified loads are very accurate in my rifle which is much more important than 50 fps muzzle velocity. They all are most certainly killers.

I also am becoming a victim of throat erosion on a couple of older rifles, (i.e.) .270 Win and 7mm Rem Mag. These rifles were 75-100 fps faster 10 years ago than now. These are two rifles that I acquired in the early 1970's. They also are the rifles that I shoot a lot and they both have had 3000+ bullets through their throats and are showing the effects of that by losing 100 fps muzzle velocity recently but they still are very accurate and do the job. So I have a tendency to cut them some slack for these reasons.

 

[SJB358]

Here is the same data ran with your H20 capacity. It looks like the numbers are much closer to what you are seeing. If I inputted the seating depths your using and then remember this doesn't seem to be an exact science, it'll get pretty close. It still looks like QL is showing about 70-75FPS more than what your seeing, so it could be chronograph difference, or just the burn rates calculated vs your actual powders burn rate.

Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler CT BalSilTip 51160
Useable Case Capaci: 61.000 grain H2O = 3.961 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4064

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 42.32 2318 2005 34550 8043 94.7 1.387
-18.0 82 43.38 2371 2097 36733 8257 95.6 1.353
-16.0 84 44.44 2423 2190 39044 8463 96.4 1.315
-14.0 86 45.49 2475 2285 41489 8659 97.1 1.277
-12.0 88 46.55 2527 2381 44077 8844 97.8 1.241
-10.0 90 47.61 2578 2479 46816 9019 98.3 1.207
-08.0 92 48.67 2629 2578 49716 9181 98.8 1.174
-06.0 94 49.73 2680 2679 52787 9332 99.2 1.142
-04.0 96 50.78 2730 2780 56041 9470 99.5 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 98 51.84 2780 2883 59490 9594 99.8 1.082 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 100 52.90 2830 2987 63147 9704 99.9 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 102 53.96 2879 3091 67029 9799 100.0 1.026 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 104 55.02 2927 3197 71150 9882 100.0 1.000 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 106 56.07 2976 3303 75530 9961 100.0 0.974 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 108 57.13 3023 3410 80188 10037 100.0 0.950 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 110 58.19 3071 3518 85148 10111 100.0 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 52.90 2922 3186 73583 9356 100.0 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 52.90 2694 2707 52777 9769 97.0 1.140


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler CT BalSilTip 51160
Useable Case Capaci: 61.000 grain H2O = 3.961 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 4350

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 85 47.36 2284 1946 32710 8142 87.6 1.409
-18.0 87 48.54 2340 2043 34929 8407 88.9 1.371
-16.0 89 49.73 2397 2143 37297 8666 90.1 1.333
-14.0 91 50.91 2453 2245 39826 8919 91.3 1.293
-12.0 93 52.10 2510 2351 42533 9162 92.4 1.253
-10.0 95 53.28 2567 2458 45429 9397 93.4 1.216
-08.0 97 54.46 2624 2569 48529 9622 94.4 1.180
-06.0 99 55.65 2681 2681 51829 9836 95.3 1.145
-04.0 102 56.83 2738 2797 55345 10038 96.1 1.111 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 104 58.02 2795 2914 59112 10227 96.8 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 59.20 2852 3035 63154 10403 97.5 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 108 60.38 2909 3157 67494 10564 98.1 1.017 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 110 61.57 2966 3282 72161 10709 98.6 0.988 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 112 62.75 3023 3408 77185 10837 99.1 0.960 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 114 63.94 3079 3537 82604 10949 99.4 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 116 65.12 3136 3669 88456 11042 99.7 0.906 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 59.20 2980 3312 74651 10288 99.9 0.976 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 59.20 2683 2686 51955 10039 91.4 1.140


Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 168, Nosler CT BalSilTip 51160
Useable Case Capaci: 61.000 grain H2O = 3.961 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 91 52.00 2275 1930 29708 8881 82.7 1.450
-18.0 94 53.30 2339 2041 31890 9226 84.4 1.408
-16.0 96 54.60 2404 2156 34251 9566 86.1 1.368
-14.0 98 55.90 2470 2276 36805 9896 87.7 1.329
-12.0 101 57.20 2537 2400 39572 10217 89.2 1.284
-10.0 103 58.50 2604 2529 42576 10525 90.6 1.240
-08.0 105 59.80 2671 2662 45840 10819 92.0 1.198
-06.0 107 61.10 2739 2799 49392 11098 93.3 1.157
-04.0 110 62.40 2808 2941 53267 11359 94.4 1.117
-02.0 112 63.70 2877 3088 57502 11601 95.5 1.079 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 114 65.00 2947 3239 62139 11821 96.5 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
+02.0 117 66.30 3016 3394 67229 12018 97.3 1.006 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 119 67.60 3086 3553 72830 12190 98.1 0.971 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 121 68.90 3157 3717 79015 12334 98.7 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 123 70.20 3227 3885 85864 12449 99.2 0.905 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 126 71.50 3298 4058 93473 12533 99.6 0.873 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 114 65.00 3116 3623 76683 11753 99.9 0.956 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 114 65.00 2723 2767 49803 11171 88.3 1.151


Your case capacity it about 1.5 grains higher than standard for 30-06 in QL. Not a huge difference, but it does make a difference.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

Here is the same data ran with your H20 capacity. It looks like the numbers are much closer to what you are seeing. If I inputted the seating depths your using and then remember this doesn't seem to be an exact science, it'll get pretty close. It still looks like QL is showing about 70-75FPS more than what your seeing, so it could be chronograph difference, or just the burn rates calculated vs your actual powders burn rate.

Your case capacity it about 1.5 grains higher than standard for 30-06 in QL. Not a huge difference, but it does make a difference.

Copy that. Thanks for running the numbers. I would assume that QL's predictions are at the muzzle and I'm probably losing ~5fps just to reach my chrony. Throw in the accuracy tolerance of the chrony, unique powder lot characteristics and the position of Jupiter vs Mars and you get to the actual performance of each rifle.

Don't get me wrong here as this is a classic example of a good load ruined by a chrony. I bought this rifle a few years back to be a donor. Couldn't swing the project that year and coincidentally NY state changed the area we hunt in to a rifle permitted region. We all gladly placed our shotties on the rack and grabbed our centerfires. Not all of my relatives owned a deer rifle so I worked up a load using 165gr PTs which shot sub-MOA and away we went. I had never chronied this PT load until last month. This load has taken 8-12 deer and 2 blackies very proficiently. I promised myself that when I ran out of the PTs I loaded that I would re-barrel this rifle but alas the sequestration and furlough has squelched this plan. :evil: Now I'm trying to make some loads using the cheaper, but fully capable for this application, BT bullet.

I chronied the last three PT's I had loaded using 58.0gr of IMR-4350 and they ran at 2722fps. My only issue with these velocities is that I'm getting the same results using 10-15 less grains of powder from a 308Win I load for using the same bullet. I realize that's the beauty of the 308Win and that the -06 seperates itself from it's little cousin as we increase bullet weight. It just rubs me wrong. :?

 

[SJB358]

I totally understand your thoughts about the 06. Again, If you would like to, push up a little in the charge weight and you'll likely be more impressed. I think, looking at the QL data presented, you'd be safe to push to 59 grains of 4350.. That may be a super load for you.

Though, unless you are shooting a ton, that 168 at 2700 should act really nice on game and still hammer deer or black bear out to as far as most would shoot.

I know what you mean about furlough and all the other crap going on.. Our civilians are feeling the same pain.

You could always send it off to JES reboring...

http://www.35caliber.com/

I know a few that have done it and have been VERY happy with the results of a Whelen and 358 Norma. Their turnaround is very good too. I know I have a project awaiting their attention as well.

 

[CatskillCrawler]

I know what you mean about furlough and all the other crap going on.. Our civilians are feeling the same pain.

You could always send it off to JES reboring...

http://www.35caliber.com/

I know a few that have done it and have been VERY happy with the results of a Whelen and 358 Norma. Their turnaround is very good too. I know I have a project awaiting their attention as well.

I was lucky because I was deemed "excepted" from the furlough after two days but not all of us were. We all wear the same uniform every day but somehow we're not deemed military. :?

I've thought about a re-bore but have decided against it. I can wait, it's not like I'm hurting due to a lack of rifles...

I'm going to shoot these two loads I've worked up with H4831 and SuperFormance and then determine where I'm going to go with this rifle. I could easily load up that PT load with IMR-4350 and not think twice about it. The most accurate loads using the BT and IMR-4064 and RL-22 were at 2742 and 2753 respectively and shot triangles right at 1". I'm fairly certain that an OAL tweak will pull them in a bit tighter and this rifle can continue to provide us with fresh venison.

Thanks again for your thoughts and effort.

 

[SJB358]

No problem at all. Hope you load up and have a good Fall. I am thinking of doing a November hunt in the Adirondacks myself. Haven't been in those woods in a few years and would like to get out and hunt them again.