300 Winn Mag and Whitetails

[HeavyC]

Noseler,
I have hunted most of my days in Mississippi where the deer generally have bigger bodies. I am now hunting in Central Louisiana where the bodies are much smaller. I am currently loading a Nosler 165 grain ballistic tip in my Thompson Center Encore in 300 Winn Mag. I killed my first small deer today, only about 90 pounds. I shot for the base of his neck at broad side at about 200 yards. I was slightly left and the damage was ofcourse devastating. My question is, with these smaller deer, would it serve me better to drop down to a smaller bullet and if so which one? Would the 135 grain ballistic tip be to small if that big 200 pounder did stick his head out? Please send load data with reply.

Thank You, Heavy C

 

[NOSLER]

If you were shooting an '06 I would say go ahead. But the velocity of the 300 Win Mag is just too much for the 125gr to reliably expand. The 165gr is great especially WHEN the big boy comes out of the woods.

 

[444marlin]

I used to shoot 165gr ballistic tips over 72.0 H4350 around 3120fps and shot my first deer with it and the bullet broke both rear legs right at the hip.

 

[bailey1474]

If you were shooting an '06 I would say go ahead. But the velocity of the 300 Win Mag is just too much for the 125gr to reliably expand. The 165gr is great especially WHEN the big boy comes out of the woods.

Are you saying the 125 BT won't expand or will expand too much at high velocity? I was thinking faster ='s more expansion.

 

[300winshooter]

I had the same problem when I moved from Michigan to Louisiana. I had been using 150's and 165's (depending on what I had ready) on the larger deer. On the smaller deer it was just too much. I'm not sure why but when I switched to 180's there seemed to be less damage. It could be the velocity drop. I don't know why but there was a noticeable difference. I hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[longwinters]

In this case a bigger bullet is better with a lighter load if possible. The 125 BT is too small for the velocity you will be shooting. That deer would look like you hit it with a hand grenade. And if you hit it on bone, you will probably not get the deer.

Long

 

[roysclockgun]

HeavyC wrote: "I shot for the base of his neck at broad side at about 200 yards. I was slightly left and the damage was ofcourse devastating...."

My gosh, Man! You made a 200 yard neck shot on a 90 lb deer and the animal did not get away. That, IMO, is as good as it gets. Keep using the same rifle/load and harvest your deer. A little meat loss is better the using a too light bullet that could explode before penetration at Mag velocities.
Using one load for all your hunting makes you a better shot, more capable of handling the world class trophy when such a thing comes along.

 

[JD338]

HeavyC,

You might want to consider the 180 gr AB. It will cover everything from mice to moose both near and far.

Regards,

JD338

 

[rick smith]

Keep the bullet and slow it down to 30/06 velocities.Rick.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

If you drop down in bullet weight, that usually means more violent expansion which means more mess. If you dont want a mess, use a heavier bullet, or try an AB or Partition. I wouldnt recomend a 125g BT for anything but varmints.

 

[roysclockgun]

remingtonman wrote: " I wouldnt recomend a 125g BT for anything but varmints."

Nosler says the same thing, but everytime that I have stated that in a post, folks come out of the woodwork, cranky and producing scores of anecdotal tales regarding the number of deer that they have killed, where the 125gr or lighter Ballistic Tip bullet penetrated the animal end to end! I have only criticised BT in the lighter range, like 125gr or less, as like remingtonman, my experience shows that those weight BTs are only suited for varmints. That said, as far as I am concerned, one can use whatever bullet one chooses to use.
In regard to bullets that tear up more meat than other bullets: I want the animal bang-dead and if I lose a little extra meat, I do not concern myself with that. Falling bang-dead is far better than running off with a pretty, neat hole through and through.
In the 1960s when I was young and stupider and before I began to research a bit and handload, I shot deer with Remington factory .243cal ammo, loaded with 100gr bullets. All six deer that I remember using those cartridges on were hit in the heart/lung and ran off and when I found them the exit hole was very small. I moved up to .270Win with 130gr Sierra SP handloads that were hot as I could handload. The deer began to drop on the spot. Some had hideous exit wounds, especially when I hit bones in the shoulder and I lost some meat. I gladly accepted the meat loss as opposed to having to track and maybe lose the deer.

 

[moreloader]

Keep the bullet load you are using. Smaller bullets will only cause more damage. You should consider switching to lung shots on small deer. If you shoot behind the shoulder their will be no meat loss as small deer have very little around the ribs anyway. Deer hit with that load in the lungs will never go over 40 yards and will fall dead.

 

[captdavid]

IMHO any 30cal above a moderately loaded 308 win is over kill for any deer at under 300 yds. If you want to hunt with it OK, but it's not needed. Sometimes I use my 30-06 with 165gn PTs @2800. The meat damage doesn't seem to be too bad. Why don't you get a 7-08, or 260 and save both your and the deer's shoulder. capt david :wink: :wink:

 

[X ring 7mag]

you can never have too much rifle! however, it's been my experience that a ballistic tip is just too fragile at this velocity. what i would do is switch to a Partition or AccuBond. i was alot more satisfied after switching to a Partition...respectable but not too large on the exit, and never another step taken.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

ballistic tips are i think the most versatile and accurate hunting bullet out there. to many people use them for the wrong purpose. example being magnum cartridges shooting the lighter weights. what do you think is going to happen when you put that light fast bullet in a shoulder, duh, lack of expansion, the animal runs off, the hunters gets mad at the bullet, particularly the btips, and blames the bullet. first off, its the hunters fault more times then not. little common sense in bullet selection goes a long way. i never had any problems, zero zilch using 115 btips out of a 25-06 at 3200fps. i used it from 100-600 yards, and i purposely put that bullet in deers shoulders to anchor them. they all dropped on spot like lightning bolts, and they ALWAYS exited. never did find a bullet, i was pissed. but i guess now thats good thing. impact velocity with a btip should not be over 3000fps. when thats taken into effect, btips work great. they expand very well at longer ranges and are very accurate out to 800 yards. an example of a stupid idea is shooting the 125g btip out of any 300 magnum and expecting it to work. thats nothing but the shooters fault, not the bullets. just wanted to get this off my chest as its a hot topic with me. i love nosler bullets and dont use anything else when hunting season rolls around. being a reloader, of course i buy every damn box of bulelts out there to "try" but nosler gets the nod for hunting season. i just get very upset when hunters blame btips for there own stupidity.

 

[X ring 7mag]

sorry to offend you 25-06. didn't realize what a stake you personally have in the structural integrity of a bullet that nosler themselves recommend to not be used over 3000fps in a hunting situation. not to mention the miraculous (if not super-human) 3200 that you speak of from a 25-06. the stupidity that you mentioned involves two days in a stand, two 300+ shots across a hay field, two dead deer, and a total of four exit holes. through the boiler, might i add, not a shoulder. furthermore, if you are taking 600 yard shots at an animal, your judgement is questionable at best, not to mention the ethics involved in such a choice. sorry to doubt your story, but some of the content appears to be factually challenged. all that being said, use a BT if you want. i just have little use for one in a belted magnum beyond the range.

 

[remingtonman_25_06]

the post was not towards you. it was meant to all the hunters that bad mouth btips. you did not say what cal or velocity. and i said it myself that impact velocity should not be over 3000fps. 3200fps from a 25-06 is easy achievable with a stiff load of imr-7828, try it and work up to it, you'll see. like i have stated from the beginning, people marksmanship is the only thing that seperates a good 200 yard shot, from a good 600 yard shot. i only speak the facts of which i have experience. isn't that what this place is about??

 

[skeeter]

Like already mentioned going lighter won't help the situation in 300 wm. So either adjust your bullet for bone hits (part or bonded, etc) or next time drop that crosshair in the triangle (heart/lung) of the broadside animal and never see this happening again.

The BT is a wonderful deer bullet IMHO, but common sense must prevail if you meet heavy media (aka bone) at a high MV then expect some big holes/damage. However put that same load into the ribs and watch it blow straight thru leaving mush, few steps after the shot and very little meat loss. I hunt big bodied deer in sask., canada and have yet to experience the internet gernade talk with my magnums. Then again when I got an animal broadside I make sure the vitals are in the direct path of the bullet.

The AB might be the perfect comprimise, substantial enough to with stand those bone or high MV hits but yet still have the characteristics of a polymer tipped bullet for accuracy and range situations. I planning to test my theory in 06', if I can get it to out due my BT load...lol>)