.308 BAR load questions. Update

[bteate]

I've had this BAR for a couple of years now and decided I'd give loading for an auto a try. I chose Varget to start with. I loaded three rounds of 43, three of 43.5 and three of 44 (havn't shot the 44gr yet) The bullet of choice is the 165gr AB.
The biggest issue I have is the ultra low velocity these loads produce. I ran them over the chrono just to get a feel for SD and ES and both the 43gr and 43.5 were pretty good. The 43.5gr load was 5fps on ES. The velocity avg was 2472.
This rifle is a 20" barrel, lightweight wood stock BAR that is a dream to tote and shoot. The Nosler manual shows 2758 fps @ 44gr Varget.

Now for the questions;

Any idea on the lethargic velocity?
Does the gas system and being an auto have that great of an effect on velocity?
Do I need to drop to a 150gr AB?
What other powder could I try because of the barrel length?
Do any of you guys load for an automatic? any tips or suggestions?

I'm not looking for blistering speed, just something with a little more spunk. Ya'll have been great at helping me through some of my other loading questions, so thanks in advance.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Short barrel and a Semi-auto, I'd say that's about right:

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler BalTip 30165
Useable Case Capaci: 46.805 grain H2O = 3.039 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon VARGET

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.136% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-11.4 93 39.00 2329 1987 40588 7870 92.8 1.204
-10.2 95 39.50 2358 2037 42068 7985 93.3 1.184
-09.1 96 40.00 2387 2088 43614 8098 93.8 1.165
-08.0 97 40.50 2416 2139 45215 8209 94.3 1.145
-06.8 98 41.00 2445 2191 46873 8317 94.8 1.127
-05.7 99 41.50 2474 2243 48587 8422 95.3 1.109
-04.5 101 42.00 2504 2297 50359 8525 95.7 1.091
-03.4 102 42.50 2533 2350 52195 8625 96.2 1.073 ! Near Maximum !
-02.3 103 43.00 2562 2405 54101 8721 96.6 1.056 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 104 43.50 2591 2460 56082 8815 96.9 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 105 44.00 2620 2516 58140 8905 97.3 1.023 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 107 44.50 2649 2572 60279 8992 97.6 1.007 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.3 108 45.00 2679 2629 62504 9075 98.0 0.991 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.4 109 45.50 2708 2686 64817 9155 98.3 0.975 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.5 110 46.00 2737 2744 67225 9231 98.5 0.960 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.7 111 46.50 2766 2803 69731 9303 98.8 0.945 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!


With that short barrel, I'd switch to something faster, W760/H414, BLC-2 or IMR4895 would be at the top of my list....perhaps RL17 if you have it....

 

[bteate]

Appreciate the QL, Sniper. I have H414, but isn't it slower burning than Varget, or is my thinking a little backwards? I've been meaning to get some BL-C(2) for another .308 in my stable but just havn't had the time. The main purpose of this rifle is whitetail and if i get lucky a black bear as a back up gun (my .338WM is itching to play on my bear hunt). I know that the 150gr AB is plenty capable, but the 165's sure do appeal to me.
What would BL-C(2) look like on QL? Do I need to drop to the 150gr? assuming that the accuracy is there.

 

[Antelope_Sniper]

Oops, you are correct, 760 is slower then Varget, but for some reason, quick load really liked the w760 with the 165gr bullet. It's faster cousing w748 is another good choice, especially with 150gr bullets.

Here's BLC-2 with the 165:

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 165, Nosler BalTip 30165
Useable Case Capaci: 46.805 grain H2O = 3.039 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.064% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.6 89 42.00 2432 2167 42977 8602 96.1 1.175
-09.6 90 42.50 2461 2220 44572 8703 96.6 1.156
-08.5 91 43.00 2491 2273 46228 8800 97.0 1.136
-07.4 92 43.50 2520 2327 47949 8894 97.4 1.118
-06.4 93 44.00 2549 2381 49738 8984 97.7 1.099
-05.3 95 44.50 2579 2436 51597 9070 98.1 1.081 ! Near Maximum !
-04.3 96 45.00 2608 2492 53531 9152 98.4 1.064 ! Near Maximum !
-03.2 97 45.50 2637 2548 55542 9230 98.7 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
-02.1 98 46.00 2667 2605 57635 9304 98.9 1.029 ! Near Maximum !
-01.1 99 46.50 2696 2662 59814 9373 99.2 1.013 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+00.0 100 47.00 2725 2720 62082 9438 99.4 0.996 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.1 101 47.50 2754 2779 64445 9498 99.5 0.980 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.1 102 48.00 2783 2838 66908 9553 99.7 0.964 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.2 103 48.50 2812 2897 69475 9603 99.8 0.949 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 104 49.00 2841 2957 72153 9648 99.9 0.934 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!



I've had good luck with BLc-2 and the 150BT. Here what it looks like with the 150 AccuBond

Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler AccuBond 56719
Useable Case Capaci: 47.932 grain H2O = 3.112 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Hodgdon BL-C2

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.064% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-10.6 87 42.00 2439 1982 37608 8399 93.0 1.194
-09.6 88 42.50 2470 2031 38977 8515 93.6 1.174
-08.5 89 43.00 2500 2081 40407 8627 94.1 1.155
-07.4 90 43.50 2530 2132 41890 8737 94.7 1.136
-06.4 91 44.00 2560 2184 43434 8844 95.2 1.118
-05.3 92 44.50 2591 2236 45032 8948 95.6 1.100
-04.3 93 45.00 2621 2288 46685 9048 96.1 1.082
-03.2 94 45.50 2652 2342 48396 9145 96.5 1.064
-02.1 95 46.00 2682 2396 50173 9239 96.9 1.047
-01.1 96 46.50 2712 2450 52020 9328 97.3 1.030 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 97 47.00 2743 2505 53941 9414 97.7 1.014 ! Near Maximum !
+01.1 99 47.50 2773 2561 55940 9496 98.0 0.997 ! Near Maximum !
+02.1 100 48.00 2803 2618 58019 9574 98.3 0.981 ! Near Maximum !
+03.2 101 48.50 2834 2675 60183 9648 98.6 0.965 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 102 49.00 2864 2732 62437 9717 98.8 0.950 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.3 103 49.50 2894 2790 64785 9782 99.1 0.935 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[bteate]

thanks sniper, I'll pick up some BL-C(2) and give it a shot.

 

[Guy Miner]

bteate - Have you put any factory 165 gr ammo through it & across a chronograph?

That might give you a pretty good idea about what to expect from handloads.

 

[bteate]

I havn't ran any over the chrono, but I thought about it last night. I still have a couple of factory rounds I can try. Good suggestion.

 

[bteate]

Ok, got home today and shot some Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Tip 165gr today. Advertised @2700fps, clocked 2682fps over the chrono. I thought that I had more factory ammo, but I must have got happy on one of my shooting sessions. If it didn't cost $45-$50 a box I'd just shoot those. I can't see paying that when I get alot more enjoyment out of making my own.
I picked up a lb of BL-C(2) today and I'm going to try to load some up this evening and see what they do in the morning.
One question on the Trophy Bonded Tip, would the rings on the bullet (like Barnes) make that big of a difference on velocity, or was it a fluke?

 

[SJB358]

I don't think those rings make that much difference at all for the speeds. I would look at some of the other powders suggested and see what you can do. I didn't hear RL15 mentioned, but that is usually a touch faster in my 308 than Varget. Not alot, but it is also accurate. IMR 4064, W748 and TAC might be good ones to try as well. I would think you shouldn't have to work too hard in order to get 2600 or so out of the 165's. Those BAR's are good shooting rifles and your right, very handy to pack around the woods as well. Good luck and let us know how you make out. Scotty

 

[bteate]

I've kept working at this load just about all day, trying different powders and charges. I went back to Varget and started working up, looking for signs, until I reached 45.5gr and the bingo light came on. I had not adjusted my scope at all during this whole process and all of my groups were low and to the right (anywhere from 1-3" low-right of poa). Suddenly, the planets aligned, and put three 1" high and dead on right/left. Group size was great for this rifle and no signs of over-pressure.

The poa was to the tip of the left bar on the diamond.

Thanks for all of the advice and comments, as always, it is much appreciated.

 

[bteate]

Oh, I forgot to mention, the final velocity was 2621fps avg, 21 ES on a three shot group. For this rifle I think thats as good as it gets.

 

[SJB358]

Looks like a great load! Hope you score with it! Scotty

 

[bteate]

Thanks, Scotty. I'm sure to get alot of pleasure out of it, and maybe some backstraps to boot. The ABs that I dug out of the dirt bank looked pretty sweet, considering the bank has ALOT of rocks in it.