.308 with heavy for caliber bullets

[LifeAndLiberty]

Hi, I'm a hunter beginning to get into reloading. Have been reloading for my 375 Winchester for about a year now. Am looking to start reloading for my 308.

My 308 is a Savage precision carbine and it is a very accurate rifle. I am planning a big game hunt for 2017 (moose or elk) and I don't want to get a new rifle for a few reasons. 1, I live in the northeast and any rifle I purchase and get comfortable with for this trip will end up being a safe queen the rest of its life. And 2, I'm already very confident with my 308 out to 200 yards (which at the moment is the farthest targets at the range I belong to).

I understand that any proper .308 bullet in excess of 150 grains with great placement will get the job done, but "good enough" doesn't drive an economy, so I am looking into using the 200 grain partitions. I've found a few threads online where people have reported good results using 200 grain bullets in their 308s, but I am wondering if anyone here has any advice specific to the 200 grain partitions. I know, I know, I could just use the 180s and it'll be just fine. If the 200s don't shoot well I will probably do just that. But I've got plenty of time to experiment and results I've seen online are promising. Here's a thread from a few years ago: http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...-Nosler-Partition-308-Winchester-Load-Results

Based on the above thread, I am considering starting with RL17 and working up a load to hopefully achieve 2500fps at the muzzle. Just wondering if anyone has tried this before.

Thanks for any help/advice.

 

[Silent Sam]

What twist / barrel length is your Savage?

 

[Guy Miner]

Welcome to the Nosler Forum!

I have not personally loaded & used anything over a 190 grain Sierra Matchking bullet from the .308 Win. Normally sticking with 165/168 gr bullets which have done just fine.

Fellow who goes by "Montana Marine" posts pretty often over on 24 Hour Campfire and has done quite a bit of work with 200+ grain bullets from the .308 Win. Mostly target shooting, but I think he's hunted with the big bullets as well.

I tend to be pretty practical about my rifle choices (well, except for a pair of .375 H&H rifle, but that's another story!) and if I was hunting moose or elk with my .308 Win, I'd just use 165 or 180 gr Nosler Partitions and call it good... But I understand where you're coming from. You WANT to use a heavier bullet, and I don't see much at all wrong with that.

Highly recommend looking up ol' Montana Marine if possible. He's done more work with heavy bullets and the .308 Win than most.

Regards, and welcome aboard, Guy

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

What twist / barrel length is your Savage?

Sorry should have included that. 20" heavy barrel 1:10" twist.

 

[SJB358]

It could get some decent speed with 17.. If it were my 308, that is likely where I would start as well.

Cartridge : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 200, Nosler PART SP 35626
Useable Case Capaci: 45.378 grain H2O = 2.946 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-17

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 86 37.60 2019 1810 31021 8020 92.3 1.453
-18.0 88 38.54 2072 1907 33200 8275 93.6 1.411
-16.0 90 39.48 2126 2007 35541 8517 94.8 1.370
-14.0 92 40.42 2180 2110 38062 8745 95.9 1.328
-12.0 94 41.36 2234 2216 40775 8957 96.8 1.286
-10.0 96 42.30 2288 2324 43704 9152 97.7 1.244
-08.0 99 43.24 2342 2435 46863 9329 98.4 1.204
-06.0 101 44.18 2396 2549 50279 9486 99.0 1.166
-04.0 103 45.12 2449 2664 53980 9622 99.4 1.129 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 105 46.06 2503 2782 57992 9737 99.7 1.093 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 107 47.00 2556 2902 62354 9828 99.9 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 109 47.94 2610 3024 67103 9895 100.0 1.025 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 111 48.88 2662 3148 72284 9947 100.0 0.993 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 114 49.82 2715 3273 77953 9995 100.0 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 116 50.76 2767 3401 84169 10038 100.0 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 118 51.70 2820 3531 91004 10076 100.0 0.903 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 107 47.00 2667 3158 76032 9346 100.0 0.980 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 107 47.00 2390 2538 50505 9884 95.8 1.163

 

[DrMike]

Welcome aboard, L&L. Your .308 will work very well on either moose or elk. I don't know that you need to go to a 200 grain bullet, though undoubtedly it will work well for you. I have shot a few moose and elk, though admittedly never with a .308. I would be most comfortable tackling either of these critters with a 165/168 grain bullet. Nevertheless, as you say, "good enough" doesn't drive an economy. I do not doubt that you will get good service with RL17 and a 200 grain PT. I have shot a .356 and a .358 for quite a few years, taking several head of big game with those cartridges. I'm usually shooting 250 grain bullets in the .356 and 200 grain bullets in the .358. Everything shot with those cartridges has died pretty convincingly. Undoubtedly, anything you should shoot with your .308 loaded with a 300 grain Partition will die just as convincingly. The data provided by SJB358 demonstrates some pretty good ballistic data which should give you a fair degree of confidence. Consequently, your 375 Win will work well, only at a reduced range. Another woefully neglected cartridge today. Again, welcome aboard.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks for the replies so far. I will check out that gentleman who has done some extensive testing for sure.

Yes the 375 is a great round. I got turned onto the big bore / "unicorn cartridges" by a maine guide who swears by them (356, 375, 444...) settled on the 375, good balance of thump and moderate recoil.

At one point in time I was considering either selling this 308 to fund as 30'06 or having the barrel bored to 338 federal or 358 winchester. I just couldn't bring myself to do either. The rifle is very accurate and I shoot it very well and I don't want to let that go or ruin it. Hence why I'm trying to squeeze the most out of it that I can without potentially ruining a good thing.

 

[SJB358]

You'll be fine if you charge forward with 200's but you'd do well with 165 ABs or PTs as well. Plus you'd gain some useful trajectory. Check out the bullet test section. Some great info in there.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll have to parrot some of the other folks here.... the only thing you get with a 200gr bullet in the .308 is less useful range. If that floats your boat, go right ahead...but it'll do nothing to get you an elk on the ground.

I've done a great deal of hunting with the .308WIN and the 165s give you all you need for any ungulate that walks. I've also overthought the .308 a great deal...and I pencilled a Winchester Fail Safe straight through several critters before I figured out that wasn't the best idea going. So, I'd also forget the super tough bullets...no need at the mild impact speeds the .308 generates. A 165AB, BT or PT will all work just fine.

 

[DrMike]

FWIW, should you ever alter the rifle, either the 338 Federal or the 358 Winchester would be a fine conversion. I shoot both, and I do love them. I can attest to the fact that either will drop moose and/or elk quite smartly.

 

[FOTIS]

Welcome to the forum.

In my 308 win I use 45 gr Varget with 165 AccuBond or Partition. I would tackle ANY NA animal with this load.

 

[Guy Miner]

Welcome to the forum.

In my 308 win I use 45 gr Varget with 165 AccuBond or Partition. I would tackle ANY NA animal with this load.

THAT is a classic combo for the .308 Win! 45 grains of Varget and a quality 165 gr bullet...

And it's the same load that has done so well for me in 600 yard competition (with a 168 gr match bullet) and also in the field with a 165 gr Nosler hunting bullet.

I'd really recommend going for the 165 at 2800 fps vs the 200 gr bullet at 2400-2500 fps.

Elk aren't always found at short range. If you want a good chance at smacking one at 300+ yards, you'll appreciate the flatter trajectory of the 165 at 2700-2800 fps.

Not saying a 200 gr Partition at 2400 fps won't work - but it might be easier with a 165 moving 300 fps faster.

Regards, Guy

 

[.300winmag]

I've had great luck with 180 BT's & AB's using noslers recommended loads. Killed a few elk with them both. My barrel is a 1-12" twist, velocity was right at 2700fps with a 24" bbl

 

[preacher]

You are 100% correct in that you are just fine with your .308! Looking at the 200's, I too would use Power Pro 2000MR with any 200gr bullet in a .308. In fact, I used it for my SIL's spare .308 and 165 Swift Aframe for 2750 fps, which is no slouch! I would recommend either the Swift A Frame OR the Barnes 168 TSX, with either as close as I could get to 2800fps. Either 2000MR or TAC will get you there or very close. I have shot more game with the Barnes X, XLC, XBT, TSX, TTSX than any other bullet in the past 35 years, in many calibers. Some were small, some were big, but all killed the same...hole all the way through with extensive internal damage. Now, a 200gr Partition or Speer at 2400 will be lethal for sure...it just depends on what you want to do, so go forth and slay those critters! God bless, Rev Jim

 

[PJGunner]

Interesting, heavy bullets in the .308. I've only used the .308 from several different rifles and only on deer. Powders used have been H335 backing 1973 the various 4895's about even between the IMR and H versions. Have one load with W760 that only works for a rifle that is a "One Trick Pony" in that it's the ONLY load that will shoot an acceptable groups for hunting and it only does 2550 FPS from the 18.5" barrel of the M77 Ruger RSI. Tried the same load in a 2" M70 and got 2610 FPS. Works just fine on Mule Deer to 250 yards though from the RSI. Bullet is the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core. The only heavy bullet work I've done with the .308 is with W760 and the 220 gr. Sierra round nose. The M70 has a 1 in 12" twist yet that load has done groups in the .375" to .50" depending on how well I'm shooting. Surprised the heck out of me. According to Winchester's data, velocity was 2295 FPS at the max load. I got 2310 IIRC, close enough. Not a .308 but I did use a 165 gr. AccuBond from a 30-06 last January to kill a cow elk and it worked just fine. I think it would be a good choice in the .308 or a 180 gr. AccuBond or Partition of either weight.
Paul B.

 

[Charlie-NY]

While a .308 can get the job done you will have to limit your range accordingly. When I was moose hunting in Newfoundland, 3 out of 4 of the guys who actually killed moose got their only opportunity at about 400yds. I used a 338 Ultra Mag and took my moose at 54yds!! So you just never know.

If I was committed to using a .308, I would look seriously at the 180gr Partition. 200gr bullets will rob velocity and may intrude so far into the case that the remaining case capacity may become an issue.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[3deers]

Hi L&L
I wasn't going to comment here because I've never loaded 200g'ers in my 308's.
I've killed several bull moose with 180 PT and a couple with 165 PT. Both work superbly. (Shot a couple in the old days with good ole Remington Core-Lokt 180's as well.)

I've often argued that the 308 is a 30-06, in some guns, when using fine tuned handloads AND LIGHT BULLETS, 125g to 150, maybe 165g. It can't match an 06 with 180's, and just simply doesn't have the powder capacity to capitallize on 200g or 220g bullets. The heavier grain bullets seat deep and use up your powder capacity. I don't have a reloading manual in front of me, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't see the 2,500 fps your hoping for. Indeed, probably not 2,400 fps with your 20" barrel. This is going to severely limit your range.

If your hunting in heavy timber at close range, and in your back yard, go get 'em, tiger. But it sounds like you'll be travelling, and accumulating some expenses, and time. Please consider giving yourself some flexibility with range. A NPT 165g or 180g is your friend, and your meat-getter. And either just might save you some disappointment.

 

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks for the replies.

The thing about taking a shot in excess of 200 yards is that where I live there are no ranges in excess of 200 yard targets to practice at. I may be able to take a few shots at a farm I hunt but I can't go turning that place into a range either... so even if I showed up with something that would give me "more range" my ability to be proficient in excess of 200 (when any bullet will begin to drop) will be limited. The joys of living in yuppie southern new england....

Using this tool http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html unless I'm over 2450fps then it appears I am better off with 180 grain bullets both in terms of energy and speed. I'm not so concerned with bullet drop for the reasons previously mentioned. Up until now I have been hunting with 165/168 grain bullets and my rifle shoots them well. I was expecting to see higher numbers in terms of energy with the 200 grain bullets but, it looks like the 180s have the edge in that department.

I will try and reach out to that gentleman who has used 200 grain bullets to pick his brain a bit. But maybe I will fall in line and stick with the 180's or 165's after all.

 

[SJB358]

Out to 200, you'd be fine with any of them and only being able to shoot to 200 makes it tough.

Still, a 165 of any kinda good construction will handle elk just fine.

 

[Guy Miner]

The thing about taking a shot in excess of 200 yards is that where I live there are no ranges in excess of 200 yard targets to practice at. I may be able to take a few shots at a farm I hunt but I can't go turning that place into a range either... so even if I showed up with something that would give me "more range" my ability to be proficient in excess of 200 (when any bullet will begin to drop) will be limited. The joys of living in yuppie southern new england....

You might not have to take a shot beyond 200 yards... And if that's what you've got for a practice range, then use it.

But, it's all too common "out west" to have to make a 250, 300, 350 yard shot... Or eat tag soup.

So - here's what I'd do:

Zero the rifle at 200 yards with your chosen load.
Memorize the drop to 300 yards and beyond... (and put it on a waterproof card, taped to the stock)
Tell your outfitter ahead of time that you have not had a chance to shoot beyond 200 yards, and ask if he could set up something for you, for a little practice.

It's not at all uncommon to "check zero" near hunting camp after travel. Scopes and rifles get bounced around in transit, and the elevation where you're hunting will likely be considerably different than where you live and practice. So, it's not an unusual request at all, to be able to take a few shots to confirm your zero. Would be real easy in most places to extend that out to 300 yards.

Drop on a 165 Partition, zeroed at 200 yards, with 2700 fps mv, is only about 8" - there would be no reason to even hold over the elk for a 300 yard shot.

If you can hit well at 200, you'll be able to hit at 300 yards, just fine.

Regards, Guy