338 win mag Speer 275 gr semi spitzer

[stew]

I see in the bullet test page some one tried them awhile ago and said they performed well on the water jug test. Was curious as to peoples thoughts on them for may be able to get some. My new speer manual does not have them in it but my old one does.
Will be using them out of a 338 win mag.
Thanks

 

[OU812]

Been discontinued for many years. Best best to look around and find someone who is willing to turn some loose.

 

[stew]

Been discontinued for many years. Best best to look around and find someone who is willing to turn some loose.

Ya I figured that but no of some a guy wants to get rid of just wondering of peoples thoughts on them.
Thanks

 

[OU812]

I would bet they would flat out wreck anything they impacted with in a reasonable range.

 

[SJB358]

I would bet they would flat out wreck anything they impacted with in a reasonable range.

I've got 250-300 of them. At 2650 out of my 338 I'd tackle about anything with them. Very accurate for me. They penetrate far. The 338 isn't putting a lot of speed on them either so you might be really happy with them. Get what you can Stew.

 

[preacher]

It was one of Elmer Keiths favorite, if that tell you anything! Woodleigh or Hawk heavyweights are an option also. I haven't seen any Speers in years ( hey, I'm a rapper!) ha

 

[DrMike]

For sure, those 300 grain Woodleigh bullets will plough through a lot of tissue before they're stopped.

 

[stew]

Looks like I have found some of the speer 275 gr bullets just curious those that have used them what powders they have tried or would recommend I have IMR 4831 and 7828
and H4350
Thanks for your time

 

[DrMike]

To give an idea of what can be used, I ran a QL projection.

Cartridge          : .338 Win Mag.
Bullet             : .338, 275, Speer SSP 2411
Useable Case Capaci: 74.098 grain H2O = 4.811 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61500 psi, or 424 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

11 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 102.7     75.4     4.89    2686   100.0    61500   10739   1.260  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP                          103.4     73.7     4.78    2663   100.0    61500   10877   1.261  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    105.1     73.4     4.75    2656    98.7    61500   11195   1.258  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517                107.9     78.7     5.10    2655    99.3    61500   11013   1.248  ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12                  107.8     78.6     5.09    2655    99.3    61500   10992   1.248  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    105.5     76.6     4.96    2650    97.6    61500   11295   1.263  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70                  100.0     72.8     4.72    2648   100.0    61500   10506   1.251  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828                           109.5     72.7     4.71    2639    99.0    61500   10791   1.251  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       103.6     72.7     4.71    2639    99.0    61500   10791   1.251  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 105.3     72.7     4.71    2633    99.7    61500   10735   1.265  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15                       105.3     72.7     4.71    2633    99.7    61500   10735   1.265  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation       105.3     72.7     4.71    2633    99.7    61500   10735   1.265  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR                     108.2     73.1     4.74    2633    99.6    61500   10755   1.266  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15                        108.2     73.1     4.74    2633    99.6    61500   10755   1.266  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                 110.0     74.7     4.84    2625   100.0    58481   10394   1.279  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213                        104.5     72.2     4.68    2624    98.9    61500   10706   1.251  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214                        108.4     76.9     4.98    2618    99.0    61500   10574   1.248  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     105.1     78.2     5.07    2617    99.9    61500   10259   1.256  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60                   93.6     67.1     4.34    2617   100.0    61500    9571   1.260  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 108.0     72.2     4.68    2602   100.0    61500    9632   1.273  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905                      106.5     72.2     4.68    2600    98.6    61500   10463   1.268  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  92.5     66.3     4.29    2595   100.0    61500    9498   1.270  ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17                            92.5     66.3     4.29    2595   100.0    61500    9498   1.270  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation       108.1     75.3     4.88    2594    97.2    61500   10604   1.256  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209                        101.3     68.8     4.46    2589    99.5    61500   10127   1.260  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 101.8     69.6     4.51    2588    99.6    61500   10194   1.268  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 518                 98.1     69.2     4.48    2585   100.0    61500    9893   1.274  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation         102.6     70.1     4.54    2582    99.5    61500   10125   1.269  ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511                 94.2     68.5     4.44    2582   100.0    61500    9808   1.275  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      97.3     68.6     4.45    2581   100.0    61500    9795   1.275  ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62                   96.0     68.7     4.45    2580   100.0    61500    9585   1.287  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        91.9     66.4     4.30    2576   100.0    61500    9811   1.278  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      91.9     66.4     4.30    2576   100.0    61500    9811   1.278  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  99.0     65.8     4.27    2576   100.0    61500    9350   1.281  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831                      107.2     71.2     4.61    2566    98.3    61500   10086   1.266  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   103.0     71.2     4.61    2566    98.3    61500   10086   1.266  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365                        99.0     67.3     4.36    2564   100.0    61500    9060   1.286  ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204                           96.5     68.1     4.41    2564    99.4    61500    9916   1.271  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation           99.7     68.1     4.41    2564    99.4    61500    9916   1.271  ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4                         99.7     68.1     4.41    2564    99.4    61500    9916   1.271  ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2                        110.0     75.1     4.87    2563    98.4    53371   10990   1.341  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30                        110.0     75.1     4.87    2563    98.4    53371   10990   1.341  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     94.0     65.6     4.25    2557   100.0    61500    9467   1.289  ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP                           96.8     65.4     4.24    2556   100.0    61500    9333   1.285  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation          96.8     65.4     4.24    2556   100.0    61500    9331   1.285  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385                       102.1     70.5     4.57    2555    99.9    61500    9709   1.289  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       96.0     65.6     4.25    2552   100.0    61500    9285   1.302  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780             100.4     72.3     4.69    2547    99.5    61500    9702   1.274  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100                      105.3     71.9     4.66    2545   100.0    61500    9403   1.302  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165                    107.4     72.6     4.70    2542    99.7    61500    9499   1.279  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation        97.3     67.5     4.37    2542    99.9    61500    9509   1.285  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           101.6     66.4     4.30    2540   100.0    61500    9127   1.294  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904                      100.5     67.7     4.38    2537    98.9    61500    9673   1.275  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron                   104.1     69.2     4.48    2532    98.4    61500    9760   1.274  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070                          96.4     65.2     4.22    2525   100.0    61500    9311   1.295  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160                    107.3     70.3     4.55    2524    98.8    61500    9511   1.277  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 99.4     65.7     4.25    2515   100.0    61500    8583   1.287  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071                         110.0     71.1     4.60    2514   100.0    58804    9361   1.329  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361                        99.5     72.4     4.69    2513    98.2    61500    9530   1.286  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H1000                      110.0     74.3     4.82    2509    97.9    53659   10285   1.328  ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217                        110.0     74.3     4.82    2509    97.9    53659   10285   1.328  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907                       94.2     63.1     4.09    2506    99.9    61500    9175   1.291  ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7                          94.2     63.1     4.09    2506    99.9    61500    9175   1.291  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC                        91.2     63.2     4.10    2505    99.9    61500    9169   1.291  ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065                          95.3     63.7     4.13    2502   100.0    61500    8927   1.297  ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903                       91.6     61.9     4.01    2496   100.0    61500    8560   1.310  ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355                        91.7     61.3     3.97    2493   100.0    61500    8584   1.303  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7977 Enduron                   108.4     73.3     4.75    2471    91.7    61500    9387   1.281  ! Near Maximum !

From the Speer No. 5 Manual, recommended maximum loads were 60 grains H380, 59 grains of IMR4064, 69 grains of IMR4350, 60 grains IMR4895, 75 grains of H4831 and 60 grains IMR4320.

By Speer No. 10 Manual, the maximums had changed to 58 grains IMR4064, 68 grains IMR4831, 60 grains W760, 62 grains of H414, 66 grains IMR 4350 and 74 grains MRP.

Speer No. 12 appears to be the last time this particular bullet was listed. Maximum charges listed were 72 grains AA4350, 70 grains IMR4831 and H4831, 75 grains IMR7828, 69 grains H4350, 65 grains AA2700, 70 grains RL19, 66 grains IMR 4350, 64 grains H414 and W760, 78 grains H1000 and 72 grains AA3100.

As you can see, the charges were changing quite rapidly as better testing methodology became available and as lots of propellants were changed.

I would be cautious to approach the old maximums with care in many instances.

 

[andrewctillman]

Wow, this is a trip down memory lane!

I knew Elmer fairly well. I used to send him bison meat on dry ice via UPS to Salmon, Idaho where he lived. I was in NW Oregon so it did not take long to get there. He gave me alot of advice on the 338 when I was building one. In 1978-82 when I used the 338 on american bison to butcher them, I tried alot of different bullets. Elmer liked the 275 and I tried it but there were certainly other bullets back then with more frontal area. The jacket is thin and does not support the expanded frontal area very well even at a modest 2550 fps which is all I could get from a 22 inch Douglas barrel on Ruger 77 action. I was using IMR 4350 and it was hard to stuff enough of it in case to get very high velocity. The 338 was minimum caliber to kill bison humanely with one shot to spine. 300 Weatherby w 180 nosler at honest to god 3250 fps would knock them down but theyd still be alive and look at you with those big brown eyes. Heart breaker if you raised them from a calf. That is about when I met Elmer. Because of its modest FA it penetrates well but has poor retained weight. Certainly better bullets now (and then) but I will always think of the 275 fondly since that is how I met Elmer Keith.

 

[stew]

Thanks Mike I had a look at the hodgdon site and there max loads are quit a bit less then the info you show from the No 12 manual so yes will start low.

 

[DrMike]

I set the QL parameter at 61.5k psi to be somewhat cautious. Obviously, there is some room, but I doubt you would gain enough velocity to justify the additional pressure.

 

[SJB358]

Wow, this is a trip down memory lane!

I knew Elmer fairly well. I used to send him bison meat on dry ice via UPS to Salmon, Idaho where he lived. I was in NW Oregon so it did not take long to get there. He gave me alot of advice on the 338 when I was building one. In 1978-82 when I used the 338 on american bison to butcher them, I tried alot of different bullets. Elmer liked the 275 and I tried it but there were certainly other bullets back then with more frontal area. The jacket is thin and does not support the expanded frontal area very well even at a modest 2550 fps which is all I could get from a 22 inch Douglas barrel on Ruger 77 action. I was using IMR 4350 and it was hard to stuff enough of it in case to get very high velocity. The 338 was minimum caliber to kill bison humanely with one shot to spine. 300 Weatherby w 180 nosler at honest to god 3250 fps would knock them down but theyd still be alive and look at you with those big brown eyes. Heart breaker if you raised them from a calf. That is about when I met Elmer. Because of its modest FA it penetrates well but has poor retained weight. Certainly better bullets now (and then) but I will always think of the 275 fondly since that is how I met Elmer Keith.

Thanks Andrew for the write up. I've shot a bunch of them with RL22. Pretty accurate for me but you're smack dab right about them not maintaining a whole bunch of frontal area. Never took an elk with one but I'd imagine they be pretty good there. I have a bunch of them left on the bullet shelf.

 

[elkhunternm]

Stew,if you want to use a 275 gr bullet in your .338Win mag,why not a Swift A-Frame?

 

[stew]

Stew,if you want to use a 275 gr bullet in your .338Win mag,why not a Swift A-Frame?

Have always had good luck and results with speer and cost wise they are a lot cheaper to try. These came up for sale so thought would give them a try. Hard to find swift products here.
A couple buddys drew grizzly tags here and one wants to use my 338 so if these shoot well, will probably be what he uses.

 

[elkhunternm]

Gotcha.

 

[stew]

Well the bullets showed up got a few loaded up to try today with IMR 7828 and 4831, but the weather is not good, hopefully will be cleared tomorrow. They are quit the big bullet though.

 

[stew]

Tried a few different combinations of powder weight and seating depth, settled on IMR 7828 they shot fairly well with a 3/4 inch 3 shot group. Will load some more up and check it at 200 yds then its waiting till april and start of bear season.

 

[JD338]

Stew,
Run one of those big Speers through some water jugs to see how they penetrate and hold up.
I have a few of them and will run them through the 338 RUM

JD338

 

[stew]

Stew,
Run one of those big Speers through some water jugs to see how they penetrate and hold up.
I have a few of them and will run them through the 338 RUM

JD338

If I get a chance will try , but my buddy will probably have the gun till end of bear season for he wants to use it. In the bullet test section another fellow did a water jug test and said it went through 9 jugs. That's what got me interested.