35 Whelen AI

[truck driver]

Just finished reading the Gun Digest article by Bob Lucas on PO Ackely improved cartridges and learned a little more about AI cartridges.
It's all Preachers fault for telling me his Remington 700 classic 35 Whelen has the improved chamber and sparked my curiosity.
First let me say that I'm not interested in hot riding the 35 Whelen. What I am interested in is improving case life and function.
I need to pick your gray matter on this one since I have a donor that could be re-barreled for this or have JES re-bore and chamber it and save the factory rifle or just have it re-chambered.
What are the thoughts on AI ing the 35 Whelen?

 

[Thebear_78]

There isn't much advantage in the whelen ai. My buddy had one and eventually got tired of the hassle and rechambered it to 358 norma. There really wasn't any real advantage when compared to the standard whelen. There is barely a shoulder to blow out in the first place and not enough body taper to make any meaningful difference in capacity. It will also kill your resale value if you ever do sell it.

The whelen is a fine cartridge just the way it is and would work well with a rebore or rebarrel.

The difference in brass life or function is negligible. Just set up your dies right so you don't overwork the shoulder and you will be fine.

 

[DrMike]

There isn't much advantage in the whelen ai. My buddy had one and eventually got tired of the hassle and rechambered it to 358 norma. There really wasn't any real advantage when compared to the standard whelen. There is barely a shoulder to blow out in the first place and not enough body taper to make any meaningful difference in capacity. It will also kill your resale value if you ever do sell it.

The whelen is a fine cartridge just the way it is and would work well with a rebore or rebarrel.

The difference in brass life or function is negligible. Just set up your dies right so you don't overwork the shoulder and you will be fine.

Sound advice, dat.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for the response TB. I only neck size for the most part and really don't over work the shoulder. What I'm seeing is multiple cracks in the neck of my cases in front of the shoulder with an occasional split case mouth. I've never had this problem in the past when only neck sizing.

 

[Thebear_78]

Try annealing? I haven't found the whelen to be hard on brass. Are you starting with whelen brass or are you converting 06 brass

 

[SJB358]

There isn't much advantage in the whelen ai. My buddy had one and eventually got tired of the hassle and rechambered it to 358 norma. There really wasn't any real advantage when compared to the standard whelen. There is barely a shoulder to blow out in the first place and not enough body taper to make any meaningful difference in capacity. It will also kill your resale value if you ever do sell it.

The whelen is a fine cartridge just the way it is and would work well with a rebore or rebarrel.

The difference in brass life or function is negligible. Just set up your dies right so you don't overwork the shoulder and you will be fine.

I'll throw 3rd's at this one. While there may be a little gain Improving the cartridge, with properly set up dies case life could be an eternity, especially with proper annealing of the cases. I thought about Improving mine a few times, but with the correct powder, in a Remington chamber, you really have a great package. I have push a 250 PT at around 2625/2650 from mine with RL15 and I cannot wear my cases out (they are just cheapy RP brass as well). Same goes for the 225's, easily push them up over 2700 without any drama.

I don't think it would hurt a think if you improved the rifle, but really, there is little to be gained unless it is strictly for the fun factor. Which cannot be discounted either, if you just wanna do it.. :grin:

 

[truck driver]

I'm only using factory Remington Whelen brass but don't know how many times it was reloaded since I got it with the rifle. I just recently got some more new brass from SPS.
I have tried annealing the brass but haven't shot any since I annealed it. I practiced on the brass with the cracks in the necks before trying it on the good brass.

I also have some used Nosler brass that I haven't loaded yet. I like to use one brand at a time till it wears out and the Remington brass is doing just that.

 

[SJB358]

Annealing it is the key Rodger. I was able to get a whole lot of firings through my brass before I started annealing when I had the dies set up to just touch the shoulder. While not a real issue, you don't wanna create excessive headspace with the Whelen, so monitoring that measurement provides you with tight brass and keeps you from overworking it as well.

I have tried to talk myself into thinking the RP brass is substandard, but I have done so much shooting with mine and it has been holding up really well.

Once you get your annealing down pat, I think it'll be a non issue.

 

[truck driver]

Scotty, I've only used Remington, Win and Federal brass which was bought loaded from the factory or range pick up and only bought new brass for the 257 Roberts and 300Bee. Heck if I look threw my 30-06 brass I will find a mixture of commercial and military brass since I would buy cheap military ammo when available for practice and to get the brass for reloading. Just recently been splurging on premium brass but still are Nosler blems.

 

[SJB358]

I have done fine with WW and RP brass. Just requires more prep time for me. Some of the cartridges I use are keyholed into WW brass, but it holds up fine once squared up a little.

 

[gerry]

I believe it was John Barsness who called the 35 Whelen AI the most useless of all the Ackley Improved rounds since there is so little shoulder to blow out there is only minimal gain in velocity when both are loaded to the same pressure. It obviously isn't a bad round but it really doesn't gain much over the standard Whelen, Nosler's data shows it can push 200's to 2900 fps, 225's to 2800 fps and 250's to over 2600fps.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Maybe not much increase in power/performance...but it would make for longer lasting brass, and a little better shoulder to head space on.

In these days of ever increasing metal prices (all metals)....anything that lasts longer is better in my opinion.

With an improved chamber....you can still ruin brass by stretching the primer pocket (hot loads), but there's less worry about head separation.

 

[wvchevy3]

Rodger, the brass you got with the rifle was only Remington?.. I thought there was some nosler also.The Remington shot twice and not annealed. Lee

 

[30-338]

I believe it was John Barsness who called the 35 Whelen AI the most useless of all the Ackley Improved rounds since there is so little shoulder to blow out there is only minimal gain in velocity when both are loaded to the same pressure. It obviously isn't a bad round but it really doesn't gain much over the standard Whelen, Nosler's data shows it can push 200's to 2900 fps, 225's to 2800 fps and 250's to over 2600fps.

Let's be fair about everything. Nosler is the only one that list those velocity and they are max loads with 200gr/ 225gr/250gr bullets and they used Pac-Nor 26" barrel with 1/14 twist barrel. Hornady/Speer used factory Rem rifles with 22" barrels and Barnes/Hodgdon used 24" barrels and 1/16 twist barrels.

Myself I like Nolser data for 225gr bullets as I can get that 2800fps using less powder in my 35 WhelenAI than what Nosler has listed and I'm not using 26" barrel.

If you look at that top load of 2805fps start load is only 2668fps and you have a spread of 138fps. I do agree you don't gain much case capacity going with AI but what you have is used. I also understand most don't like the AI's and if we all shot same rifle it be boring.

 

[gerry]

Sure everyone can shoot what they like and it would be boring if we all shot the same cartridges. In my old 22" Whelen I typically ran 225's at 2700 with RL 15 and with Varget speed was chronographed at 2763 fps using Nosler's data. Surprisingly my new 24" barreled 35 Whelen runs at about the same speed. Whether it is an AI or standard they are a powerful round that hits hard.

 

[truck driver]

Thanks for all the replies to my question. I'm not looking to gain more velocity out of the Whelen but was looking to improve case life, surprisingly it was one of P.O.Ackley's favorites from what I read. I've also read John Barsness's opinion and respect it for just that his opinion. I should have been born a Hoosier since you have to show me sometimes that it doesn't work. That's the reason for all my questions to learn from others experiences and opinions which I highly respect.

 

[nvbroncrider]

Yeah if I had it to do over again I wouldn't have gone with the 338-06AI I would have gone standard. Dies are expensive Fireforming isn't bad but for what you gain in these cartridges it's not worth it in my opinion. Now saying that I do love the look of the AI rounds they are slick but if I were to do it over again think I'd make a 338-280AI.

 

[Elkman]

When mine was born, I took a Remington 721, updated the trigger, stock and barrel. My barrel is a Shaw, and I am happy with the whole package. My Ackley manual show 220's at 2700+ and the 250's at 2500. Those are the max loads. I doubt they were using 26 inch barrels. I do not load anywhere max, the 250 is potent enough, as it is.

 

[PJGunner]

Well, I have three rifles chambered to the standard Whelen, a custom Mauser, a Remington M700 Classic and a Ruger tang safety M77. The Mauser has a 24: barrel and the others a 22" barrel. I've been using the 225 gr. Barnes TSX bullet in the Mauser at 2710 FPS. It's very accurate and smacks elk down with serious authority. I've tried the Nosler Partition, AccuBond and Ballistic tips in 225 gr. weight but so far the rifle isn't happy with them. I just have to play with them a bit more. The Remington is used for the 250 gr. Speer Hot Core, Hornady Spire points and Grand Slams and the Ruger is reserved for cast bullet duty.
I only have one wildcat round, a .375 Taylor. Very accurate, duplicates the .375 H&H and kicks like an angry mule in that 7.5 pound rifle. I built it for a rough country elk hunt when I was younger and dumber. :lol: It's made to be carried a lot and shot very little.
Paul B.

 

[preacher]

Come on! Ream that baby out to the Ackley Improved and join the"World of Wild Killing"! ha. I guarantee you will use your brass for a super long time! Tiny shoulder "my eye", its way sharper than the standard and no trimming, ever! I get ( with no pressure signs mind you) 2970 with the older 200X ( 2950 w/200 TTSX, H322) 2600 with the old Barnes 250X( 2015br), and 2750 with the Nosler 250 Partition and Speer 250 SP ( R15)! That, my friend, is 358 Norma territory! PM me for the exact load data. That long Remington throat just aids the Whelen AI, even with the 1 in 16" twist! I'm OK with guys with the standard Whelen in 24+ barrels giving their opinion, BUT, in a 22", you simply must go with the AI to get improvement in velocity ( plus long case life). I took some Norma 30-06 brass, necked it up to 35 and left a false shoulder on it, filled the case with 15gr Bullseye and the rest with cornmeal, standard primer and topped the case mouth with candle wax- Presto! beautiful 35 AI cases! Go for it Pard, I need some back-up on my ballistic claims, so far, no one has called me a liar ( I think its because I'm a Preacher, lol!)