35 Whelen AI

[Thebear_78]

Pressure signs are not a great indicator of pressure, by the time your seeing pressur signs you are well above the standard opperating pressures. Improving a cartridge is not a magical transformation, if your getting those kind of velosities its because your opperating at MUCH higher pressures than standard guidelines. That doesn’t mean it won’t work just understand your definately opperating above 62k PSI. You could overload a standard 35 whelen to achieve higher velosities also. Its just all about what yor williing to risk. In my oppinion if you need more horsepower than standard pressure in a whelen then its time to step up to a bigger case. If you want a 358 norma why not get one, same action length as the whelen, easy to get brass for and will do that performance at a more reasonable pressure.

Lets look at what your gaining real world benefit from pushing the pressure limits to the edge.

250gr Partition
Muzzle 100 200 300 400
2750fps 0.0 -3.86 -13.9 -31.5
2500fps 0.0 -5.2 -17.7 -39.6

Thats not really that much improvement in performance considering the risk of damaging your rifle or self if you have a brass failure.

Preacher this is not personal attack on you, I see a lot of people who push a cartridge past the normal limits, especially when using ackly improved cartridges. Thats why there are so many different cartridge cases out there. So you can find what level of performance you want and get a suitable case. A 35 whelen doen’t need to be a 358 norma or 375 H&H. Its good enough at 35 whelen levels.

If you want something different than by all means go with an ackly version, and there may be some benefit to brass life, but don’t go ackley to make it into a 358 norma, its just as easy to make a 358 norma and have the added benefit of factory ammo and standard components.

 

[preacher]

No personal attack taken uncle bear! ha "In truth" ( don't you love it when a Preacher prefaces a statement with that?), I've only shot the 250/R15/2750 loads sparingly. The Barnes 200X/H322/58gr I've been using since '95, in two identical rifles, and the 200TTSX only required another .5gr to tighten up its grouping,ha. I too was surprised at the 2750/250 combo, but cases just fall out and primer pockets stay tight, using both Speer/Nosler so hey, why not use them, especially sparingly. I have great results with my 310 Woodleigh also, used it on a nice Eurasian hog, so "in actual use", with it for the woods/old school load/big bear (which scare me too much to actually hunt them! ha) and the 200 Barnes for everything else/all around, (biggest I hunt anymore is elk) unless I just want to kill something with them, I'll never use either 250 load! ha. The H322/58gr/200X load was listed for the standard Whelen in Barnes' first X bullet load manual. I was trying to find a good load for the 200x ( after my very successful '96 250X/2600 plains game hunt) and tried almost every powder listed until, in desperation I tried the H322 load. While I could go even higher in velocity with the Ackley, my accuracy ( way less than an inch!) topped out at 58gr and the 2970! So, for that load, I believe I am very safe. I actually believe the Ackley case design gets a more complete burn, therefore is just more efficient for good velocities at moderate pressures. Sighted in around +2 @ 100, with a hold on the top of his back, scope on 5X I shot a nice Black Wildebeast at 347 lasered yds in South Africa in 2002 with it, I held dead on the base of the neck and zapped a zebra mare at 250, pass throughs on both too,so it took the place of my .300/.338/340/375 for any future plains game hunts and for sure as my elk rifle. Not because I matched velocities but it "killed" as quickly, efficiently as the heavier/louder magnums, ha. So, while my 250/R15 loads "could be, probably, quite likely are" hotter than a firecracker, ha, I don't need/really use them. I "did" use both the Speer/Nosler and the Hornady 250RN in a standard Whelen 750 carbine I played with, and got bughole groups around 2400, but I never hunted with that rifle. I really see the 250s/2400 or so as the best for the standard case Whelen. I agree with all you guys on moderate speeds/heavy bullets because they just plain work, besides being nostalgic for the Whelen; but again, if looking just for long case life, Ackley is the huckleberry, ha. And no, Barnes doesn't pay me to advert for their bullets! :lol:

 

[Thebear_78]

250s at 2400fps where the ticket in my 750 also. I may fall on the side of caution but I usually load on the lighter side.

I had a buddy who liked to push the boundaries and witnessed him blow up a glock 20 AND a 1911 in 10mm, unfazed by those warnings he pushed the limit in a tikka T3 in 30/06. His rifle was a tad on the slow side and he was bound and determined to turn it into a 300 mag. He was running a load with 180gr @ 2850 fps with 414, well over max book load but not showing any dangerous pressure signs, only minor flattening on primers. He had shot that load quite a bit until he had a case head rupture and a face full of plastic bits and hot gas. Luckily he had glasses on so wasn't seriously injured.

I learned from his foolish behavior and go with bigger cases if I want more performance and put a metal shroud on my T3. I never did like that plastic shroud.

All it takes is one weaker brass to take a hot load and turn it into a dangerous one. There is no real world benefit to +/- 100-150fps, but a decided benefit in havering two eyes and a left hand!

 

[preacher]

I understand and I appreciate the sage advice...I will most certainly take it into heart! My 200X load does it all for me, really, and even the 310 Woodleigh is another thumper that works for me. I saw that 250X at 2550-2600 just kill all out of proportion to what I should have! Love a 35 caliber bullet and the less recoil of the Whelen/AI on top of it. Heck, as I have related in other posts, if I would have gotten ahold of a good '81 BLR in 358 when I was a younger man, I could "still" be using just that one rifle! But, in the meantime, my baby is this Mod 700 Classic 35 AI. I even had an '81 358 at the same time as that 750 carbine Whelen...but neither got the nod for hunting! I'm spoiled, ha.

 

[preacher]

I have to add that my 250gr bullets are seated way out, close to 3.5" COL, so in fact, I have a lot more powder space than just what one would get from simply improving the case, add the fact of how long this Remington throat is and its probably why my cases last so long too, so they may not be as hot as thought? My 200x is 3.33 and the base is only a tad deeper than halfway in the neck. The 310 I seat/crimp at the cannelure. I love this cartridge! :grin:

 

[SJB358]

Same here! Big fan of the 35 Whelen. Really is very versatile. Trajectory of the 30-06 with an 45 grains of bullet weight and a bunch more frontal area. No dig on the 30-06, but I can't see the point with a good 35 Whelen in the safe.

 

[30-338]

Ackley get's lot of credit for the AI but he never did do the 35 WhelnAI.

35 Whelen became SAAMI Spec 1988 and P.O. Ackley died 1989. Ackley book someone necked up 30-06AI case and first printing on book was 1962 and no loading data given except about 5% increase case capacity/velocity.

In Speer Wildcat manual 1959 the 35 Whelen had 23 degree shoulders and .445 shoulder dia and 30-06AI had same shoulder dia.

My 35 WhelenAI is necked up 30-06AI and it's same case Nosler has for 30-06AI page 700 Nolser manual #7. Had Rem not done the 35 Whelen it still br wildcat rd same as Nolser did 280AI.